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…have a 1892 Short Rifle ( current configuration ) that has a 357 barrel on it. Serial # 703631 made in 1913. I don’t know which receiver it has on it: a 25WCF, 32WCF, or 38WCF, 44WCF.

It is a great shooter,and given the ammo shortages,

… congrats! I occasionally shoot a round of Trap with a very similar gun and it always gets a few comments and the excellent choke absolutely smokes targets when I do my part. Hope you get it out on the field soon, please check it over carefully before stepping up to the line with this beauty.

…am currently in Butte. MT for the night... drove 670-miles today, will finish the remaining 280-miles tomorrow morning.  Should be in Cody before lunch time.

Bert

…

As far as barrel wear, I'd like to talk with someone that has actually done that.  I do have a 25-20 that is worn out but I believe this was a target gun and used a lot.  No info on what loads were being used though.

Ive got a 38-55 carbine (1914 vintage) that I have been using for 15+

…depth, and different neck tension.  If you think you need to roll crimp do it as lightly as possible. I like to taper crimp. Remember, your 45-70 barrel twist rate is probably for 405 grain bullets or lighter.  If you want to save your arm use 300 grain.

Start by experimenting with your

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…

As far as barrel wear, I'd like to talk with someone that has actually done that.  I do have a 25-20 that is worn out but I believe this was a target gun and used a lot.  No info on what loads were being used though.

Barrel issues I’ve seen are due to pitting (neglect), erosion (hot

…was on this forum in 2020 concerning the Winchester Palma Rifles

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/model-70-palma/

…all for the advice. Took the rebuilt and repaired 45-70 to the range today and sighted it in. 3" group at 50 yards using the sighting rest. Any idea what I should expect or is this "good enough" - work

…never realized that the .300 H & H had those relief cuts until now. My brother and I have Dad's Pre-64 Model 70 .300 H & H

…far as barrel wear, I'd like to talk with someone that has actually done that.  I do have a 25-20 that is worn out but I believe this was a target gun and used a lot.  No info on what loads were being used though.

…stated to be 86XXX (1948).  The receiver is a type II-2, and the odd (but probably OK) thing is that the receiver is one intended for a 30-06 Target rifle (Nat Match, Target, or Bull Gun).  I suspect that since 86XXX was just before the change to the oval tang receiver, Winchester was simply…

…using up cloverleaf tang target receivers on standard rifles.

To clarify...  The type II "transition" receiver that they began using in 1946 had a cloverleaf tang, but smooth…

…bridge with two D&T holes.  The EXCEPTION was that receivers intended for 30-06 Target rifles retained the clip slot and were NOT D&T.  That is what this rifle apparently has.  The presence of the later dogleg safety, making it a…

…type II-2 receiver, is correct for this period.

Below is a photo of the receiver of a type II-2 30-06 target rifle, S/N 87131.  It's the same as the GB rifle:

The barrel is marked in style 3B, where the caliber designation is "30 GOV'T'06 –" with the…

…correct for this S/N range.  

The slot blank in the rear sight dovetail appears to be the right style, suggesting that the rifle was originally a G7014C (with Lyman 48WJS).  The half block 48WJS on it now is a later (1950) sight as it has Stayset knobs and the coil return spring, when it …

…"should" have a have block Lyman 48WJS with target knobs and external flat return spring.  That's easy to replace.

It's true that PRISTINE PRE-WAR M70 standard rifles in 30 GOV'T'06 have been

…just got off the phone with Tedk and thought I'd post one more photo showing the different type II (transition) receivers used on the pre-64 M70 for future reference if anyone is interested.  These are all competition style rifles, two Target models and a Bull Gun.  I set them side-by-side…

…D&T holes.  This is a type II-1 in that it has the "rabbit's foot" or "clamshell" safety.  This is what you'd normally find on a 1946-48 M70 in a standard (non-H&H Magnum) caliber, including 30-06

The middle rifle is S/N 87131.  This has the receiver that is unique to target…

…rifles in 30-06 (Nat Match, Target and Bull Gun).  Cloverleaf tang, smooth UNDRILLED bridge WITH clip slot.  It's a type II-2 in that it has the later "dogleg" safety.  This is…

…with the semi-circular relief cut on top of the bridge to accommodate the longer H&H cartridge.  The same receiver would have been used on all M70s in H&H calibers at the time.  Even after the advent of the oval tang (type III) receiver, the bridge of H&H caliber rifles were not D&amp

…isn't relevant to the topic other than perceived prices.

We bought a Pre64 Model 70 Featherweight 30-06 from a local gun shop, and we decide to sell it because we had one before and shooting it was brutal. I had no problem selling

…stated to be 86XXX (1948).  The receiver is a type II-2, and the odd (but probably OK) thing is that the receiver is one intended for a 30-06 Target rifle (Nat Match, Target, or Bull Gun).  I suspect that since 86XXX was just before the change to the oval tang receiver, Winchester was simply…

…using up cloverleaf tang target receivers on standard rifles.

To clarify...  The type II "transition" receiver that they began using in 1946 had a cloverleaf tang, but smooth…

…bridge with two D&T holes.  The EXCEPTION was that receivers intended for 30-06 Target rifles retained the clip slot and were NOT D&T.  That is what this rifle apparently has.  The presence of the later dogleg safety, making it a…

…type II-2 receiver, is correct for this period.

Below is a photo of the receiver of a type II-2 30-06 target rifle, S/N 87131.  It's the same as the GB rifle:

The barrel is marked in style 3B, where the caliber designation is "30 GOV'T'06 –" with the…

…correct for this S/N range.  

The slot blank in the rear sight dovetail appears to be the right style, suggesting that the rifle was originally a G7014C (with Lyman 48WJS).  The half block 48WJS on it now is a later (1950) sight as it has Stayset knobs and the coil return spring, when it …

…"should" have a have block Lyman 48WJS with target knobs and external flat return spring.  That's easy to replace.

It's true that PRISTINE PRE-WAR M70 standard rifles in 30 GOV'T'06 have been

… to pass along.

The cartridge on the left is from The Gun Shop, (T.G.S.),or The Gun Store, by F. Mills, Bedford Virginia,(1935-early 1970's) made from a 12 gauge cartridge shell

The Cartridge in the Middle is made by Murray McNichols, stamped (M M) A legitimate reproduction

The

…said

Fellows,

I am looking for some recommendations on reloading 32-40 in an 1885 high wall. This will primarily be target shooting and in the process of looking for some cast bullets to order online, I see there are quite a few choices. I'm not sure if I should get…

…plain base or gas checked and I need some schooling on the different alloys. I'm guessing a round nose lower weight like 165 or 170 gr.? I have a few powders already that might work well if someone has a good load to share. IMR 4198, H4895, H335, IMR 3031, and a few others are

…M70’s on pre64win.com go for a lot higher (about 2x this amount)…overpriced?

Also per pre64win.com, Winchester stopped installing stripper clip…

…receivers, serial number 66350. 

https://pre64win.com/blogs/welcome-to-the-pre64win-com-campfire/know-your-rifles-place-in-model-70-family-part-1-of-2

This one is serial 86xxx with a stripper clip slot, so either pre64win.com is wrong, or this one is a modified

…an interesting Model 70 on GB:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/937168789

Looking at picture #21, does the rear receiver bridge look different? Amazing that it’s not…

…? It has a stripper clip slot but serial number in 86xxx range? Has the rear bridge been modified?

Also, the description says that this is a M70 with a Winchester 54 barrel - any take on this? I’ve never heard of this either.

Overall looks like it is in great condition.

Any insights on

…Special and he believed that the .32 W. S. was more accurate than the .30-30 WCF. Back when I bought my first Model 94 a new carbine in about 1970, he suggested the .32 but I wanted a 30-30.

Everyone in my family had a .32 Win. Spl. me, my brother, my dad, my uncle, and I bought one for

…Collector.

Fall 2019

Winchester’s Elephant Cartridge by Daniel Shuey

Shuey notes that Paul Foster stated the following:

Made 1888; 70-150-650 [thick rim] shell weighs 541 grs; Thin-rim shell weigh 361grs; Bullet weighs 648grs; Thick-rim shell: dia rim =.870in; dia body=…

…article also shows an original cartridge next to an original cartridge board dummy and the original factory loading room tool gages used for the .70-150. Which very interestingly is marked .70-180.

Sincerely,

Maverick

Mav,

I took your advice and went back to reread the Dan Shuey…

….

steve004 said

This one was probably a real one (i.e. an original dummy):

https://www.joesalter.com/category/products/Extremely-Rare-70-150-Winchester-CF-Experimental-Cartridge-Unmarked

Steve,

I agree with what your saying, that this cartridge that Joe Salter sold, is

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…You can make 40-65 out of 45-70, just anneal and form in a 1894 Winchester 40-65 tool. Granted it is still head stamped 45-70 but it works. T/R

…am in need of some 40-65 brass. If anyone has some they are wanting to part with, let me know. Prefer Starline. Ill make some from 45-70 if I cant find any.

Thanks!

…Richards at Oldgunsights.com

Mailing address: 43585 Lake Olaf Lane    Pelican Rapids, MN 56572-7208

Phone:  218-863-4858     Cell: 701-238-6761

I've done business with Mike for over 15 years... he's good to deal with.  I'll be picking up some parts for a few of my "parts"

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…like the topic says!   If anyone has some "extra" rounds lying around or have some they want to get rid of let me know.  I have a pre64 model 70 arriving at my doorstep on tuesday.   

Thanks Gents!

…a copy handy.  Hopefully this internal link will work:

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/correct-sling-for-pre-war-m70-target-rifle/#p79365

There were basically two types of Winchester leather sling available for the pre-war M70.  One was basically the two

…said

Dave K. said It is bad enough that my S&W Model 1 made in the 1870's is a prohibited firearm requiring a special class of licence simply because it is chambered in .22 Short (Black Powder) and I will not be able

…# produced and serial # range of a 1938 model 94 in 32 WS? 

Thanks George

Per the original factory records Winchester manufactured 39,570 Model 94 & 64 Carbines & Rifles in the year 1938 (serial number range 1158836 - 1198405).  Based on my research survey, the Model 64…

…production was 23.385% of the 39,570 manufactured in the year 1938.  The remaining 76.615% of the production total was the Model 94. 

For the year 1938, the caliber ratio for the…

…

2. 32 WS = 40.32%

3. 25-35 WCF = 1.40%

The extrapolated 32 WS caliber production for the year 1938 would therefore be as follows;

39,570 x 76.615% = 30,317 Model 94s

30,317 x 40.32% = 12,224 32 WS

Bert