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…3 cull bullets for 38-55. I loaded 20.4 grs lightning. Shooting at about 25 yards, i hit an 8x8in target once, 2 others were in the 18x30in cardboard backer. Don’t have a chrony yet, but the recoil felt like plinking loads of 9 grs of unique. Have 6

…said

This 1907 documents lists the serial number 125422 for TR's 45-70. 

I've tried in vain to find the thread pertaining to the '86 with TR's monogram, which had been listed in some upcoming auction about a yr ago;

…Chris

Good luck with the Model 70s.  Maybe you and your son are out there hunting right now.

…clarence said

I wonder if the .45-70 reference could be to that '86 with his initials engraved on the rcvr. that was put up for sale about a yr ago; there was considerable skepticism…

…his, but possibly it's the very gun he's talking about in this letter.

This 1907 documents lists the serial number 125422 for TR's 45-70.

…is cool.  Been wanting to go back to Iowa and use an 85 in 45-70. It is one of the few center fire cartridges that is legal in a shotgun state.

…have a winchester 1890 and a 1904

1890 - $700

1904 - $250

plus shipping

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links to picture

…of having to post military guards in many more locations than in peacetime, e.g. civilian factories and government offices deemed to be potential targets for sabotage.  The Springfield 03A3s in-hand were likely assigned to soldiers in combat/training units, since early in the war they didn't have a…

…Within a year or so, the supply of more capable combat weapons for real front line soldiers would be greater, and the stop gap second line Stateside M70s were probably retired...

The M70s (rifles and a few carbines) purchased by USMC/SOD were 30 GOV'T 06, so unlike a M92 or M94, they used the…

…cartridge.  Moreover, the number of civilian production shotguns (not contract trench guns) purchased was far greater than the number of M70s.  So the authorities were likely thinking like you as to the greater utility of a 12 gauge for guard duty.  But they even bought thousands of M37s…

… which wouldn't be a very good choice either...

FWIW... There's record in the Porter catalog of maybe a dozen pre-war M70 30 GOV'T'06 carbines that were surplussed from the California penal system in the 1990s.  Probably issued to prison guards in towers...  Maybe…

…the WWII military had similar ideas about where a M70 rifle might be serviceable (if not optimal).  I sure wouldn't want a M70 if standing guard at a vehicle checkpoint (or a M37 for that matter)!!!

As to the OP's original question, the earliest/latest of the (250

…box end wrenches (the Sears Craftsman variety) to get the screws loose/tight without damage.

BTW... I'm the WACA member doing a pre-64 M70 survey (over 18K recorded so far and counting...).  If you'd care to give me the full S/N (by post or PM) I can add your rifle to the survey

…eventually used as "loaner" rifles to servicemen for hunting.  Several of the ones that weren't converted to sniper rifles were eventually (1960s-70s) given away as "prizes" for winning base shooting competitions.

The use for which they were NOT intended was combat.  As far as I know the M70…

…was never officially adopted as a combat weapon by any branch of the service.  The M70 "sniper" conversions that did go to Viet Nam were in the hands of specialized sniper units like Hathcock's.

I'm not even sure whether the larger S…

….O.D order for (2674) M70s was ever filled (partially or completely).  There was a "quote" to S.O.D. and there was an "order" from S.O.D. recorded in the ledger, so…

…delivered.  There is even a followup letter to USMC from Edwin Pugsley in 1942 that refers to the prior 373 rifle shipment and details how many M70s were still in stock at the factory.

Best,

Lou

…Excepting for a few R&D guns, there are basically two big M70 orders in the ledgers.  One, from the USMC consisting of (373) M70 standard rifles in 30 GOV'T'06 (G7004C and G7014C depending on whether it had a standard 22G sporting or Lyman 48WJS sight).  The other, from S.O…

….D. was for (2593) standard rifles (G7004C and G7014C) and (81) 20" barrel carbines (G7024C and G7074C).  Louis Luttrell said

Lou, for what principal purpose were these 70s ordered? 

…during the war years (everything from guns to flashlight batteries and lubricants).  Some time ago I extracted the information related to M70s:  

Excepting for a few R&D guns, there are basically two big M70 orders in the ledgers.  One, from the USMC consisting of (373) M70…

…standard rifles in 30 GOV'T'06 (G7004C and G7014C depending on whether it had a standard 22G sporting or Lyman 48WJS sight).  The other, from S.O.D. was for (2593) standard rifles (G7004C…

…and G7014C) and (81) 20" barrel carbines (G7024C and G7074C).  So if your rifle was originally part of one of those orders, it would have most likely been a standard rifle in 30 GOV'T'06.  Insofar as I…

…information available than this, e.g. by serial number.

Sometime after WWII, allegedly a order went out to gather up all the surviving USMC M70s.  At that time the serial numbers of (250) of them were written down.  This list is published in Chandler's "Death from Afar Volume 1" but it is…

…373 rifles were recorded.  Important to your question, some of these rifles were arsenal rebuilt into "sniper" rifles in the 1950s.  They received target weight barrels either purchased from Winchester (and so marked) or from Douglas.  If the stock was deemed serviceable the barrel channel was…

…opened up and the standard stock used.  Otherwise, the guns were fit with Marksman (target) stocks from Winchester.  The famous Carlos Hathcock M70 Sniper rifle was one of these rebuilds, so some of them did find their way to Viet Nam.

If you would like to give the full serial number I can…

…S/N isn't there it doesn't mean much, but if by chance it is you'd learn something.  Another question would be the barrel.  Is it a Winchester 24" target barrel?  If a Winchester barrel, can you check the two-digit year stamped on the bottom under the chamber (it should be stamped with '"1906" and a

…like to know what the original configuration of this rifle was when shipped to the DOD,

It is a 40,69XX serial number 30-06 heavy barrel, heavy target stock checkered metal butt plate,

this rifle was sent off by Air Force shooting team member for custom refinish not sure where maybe somewhere in

…like to know what the original configuration of this rifle was when shipped to the DOD,

It is a 40,000 serial number 30-06 heavy barrel, heavy target stock checkered metal butt plate,

this rifle was sent off by Air Force shooting team member for custom refinish not sure where maybe somewhere in

…Luttrell said

Hi Jerry-

Your M70 is a standard rifle.  In the 243 WIN chambering, the standard rifle is considerably less common than the featherweight version, but not exactly rare…

…either. For perspective, according to Roger Rule's book there were 24,707 Featherweights, 6,812 Standard Rifles, 4,614 Varmint Rifles, 683 Target Rifles, 291 Super Grade Rifles, and 260 Super Grade Featherweights made in 243 WIN.

You can look up the year of (receiver) manufacture, based on…

…polishing room records, under the "Resources" tab on this website.

The factory override trigger on the M70 has sufficient adjustment for weight of pull and over travel that it can usually be adjusted enough to get a satisfactory result.  Personally, I don…

…t mess with the sear engagement surfaces on M70 triggers (I'd leave that to an experienced gunsmith), but you can mess with the three hex nuts on the trigger adjustment screw that control weight

…letter and that's it. I promise it 😉

This letter is the most detailed commentary on his guns that I've seen in one place.  I wonder if the .45-70 reference could be to that '86 with his initials engraved on the rcvr. that was put up for sale about a yr ago; there was considerable skepticism

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…Winchester loading tool for 45-70 . I took my add down to make price adjustment and  add better pics and now been trying to post pics for 3 hours and can't figure it out so pics to

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…dot w/ black widow crosshairs.  PM if interested with your cell number for pictures.  Period Redfield, Buehler, or Weaver rings included.  I have M70 pre-64 std. base/bases to throw in if you need them.

…Any gun can benefit from carefully built hand loads.  It is harder to do much for straight wall rimmed cases.  Especially so because of the lack of target grade brass.  That's why I do what I can.

If you want to sort brass make sure it is all trimmed to the same length and spend $5 for one of the…

…moving or exhausting powder when fired.  The least amount of squeeze required is what you want.  For hunting you want more neck tension than for target shooting.  Measure the neck diameter of a sized case then measure it again after seating a bullet.  The difference in .001" is the neck tension. …

… off the lands or the same amount shorter than the magazine.  In our case it may be the max length that will cycle through the action.  One of my target guns the bullets are at least .080" off the lands just to get them short enough to fit my magazine.  I then use a barrel tuner to find by best

…. I wish I had figured this out while I was still able to take full advantage of tang or receiver sights. Of course Winchester made some mighty fine target rifles as exemplified by target versions of the Single Shot, M70 and the M52, to name just a few.

My brother just sent me a pic of a recovered…

…hunting bullet that travelled much of the length of a feral hog Friday evening. He was hunting with a modern Super Grade M70 and has been using hunting loads built on my loading bench for over three decades. He won’t hunt with factory loads because even a good Sporter

*** Sorry, all the search terms matched were in html attributes (such as image source) and are not displayed in the results excerpt

*** Sorry, all the search terms matched were in html attributes (such as image source) and are not displayed in the results excerpt

…said

Chuck said

TXGunNut said

I’m not a serious rifle target shooter, the case weight helps me cull the outliers. I also clean up the flash holes and trim to uniform length (after sizing) with RP cases,…

…

I’ve always wanted to try some Lapua brass but was never able to find it when I wanted to try it for a reloading project. I can count the serious target rifles I’ve owned on the fingers of one hand and still have enough to salute our departing Speaker. I’m very aware of some of the various benchrest…

…techniques but quite honestly if I had a first-rate target rifle and made ammo using the closest tolerances posssible and best components available I’d still have a loose nut behind the butt screwing things…

…need any heroic loading measures to make these old guns shoot unless there are mechanical issues.

Mike

Since I load every week for my target guns I have learned a few things that will help us with our Winchesters too.  I do not try to get my Winchesters to shoot like target guns but I do

…said

TXGunNut said

I’m not a serious rifle target shooter, the case weight helps me cull the outliers. I also clean up the flash holes and trim to uniform length (after sizing) with RP cases,…

…

I’ve always wanted to try some Lapua brass but was never able to find it when I wanted to try it for a reloading project. I can count the serious target rifles I’ve owned on the fingers of one hand and still have enough to salute our departing Speaker. I’m very aware of some of the various benchrest…

…techniques but quite honestly if I had a first-rate target rifle and made ammo using the closest tolerances posssible and best components available I’d still have a loose nut behind the butt screwing things

…said

I’m not a serious rifle target shooter, the case weight helps me cull the outliers. I also clean up the flash holes and trim to uniform length (after sizing) with RP cases,

…I have an antique 85 in 32-40.  It has a 30" #3 half octagon barrel and 3 period sights.  It is case colored. I paid $3700 for it in 2006.  It's hard to find any Winchester in nice condition for under $3500. I have a small collection of 1885's and this one filled a

…You can do it if you want but I would suggest you do a case volume test instead of or do it after sorting by weight.

I’m not a serious rifle target shooter, the case weight helps me cull the outliers. I also clean up the flash holes and trim to uniform length (after sizing) with RP cases,

…You can do it if you want but I would suggest you do a case volume test instead of or do it after sorting by weight.

I’m not a serious rifle target shooter, the case weight helps me cull the outliers. I also clean up the flash holes and trim to uniform length (after sizing) with RP cases,

…s a pair of Redfield 2-pc rings that have just been listed on ebay: 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234776063670?_trksid=p11021.c100851.m5053&_trkparms=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F234776063670%3F_trkparms%3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006…

…26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20170803121420%26meid%3Dc96b2282e6ec4dc0945616dac037814d%26pid%3D100851%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26b%3D1%26sd%3D165784486889%26itm%3D234776063670%26pmt%3D0%26noa