Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1894 Half-Round Barrel - Common?
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 12
Member Since:
October 10, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
September 11, 2021 - 5:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hello to all!

 

Forgive my ignorance of the subject, but I’m wondering if anyone can provide me with some information regarding half-round/half-octagon barrels, specifically on 1894 rifles.  I’ve been looking at an 1894 that is for sale, DOM in 1908 with a button mag and 26″ half/half barrel.  My question is, how common are these barrels on 1894s?  Are they rare, or common?  I’d greatly appreciate any insight.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12778
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
September 11, 2021 - 7:35 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Based on my research survey, 11.25% of all Model 1894 Rifles were manufactured with a ½ octagon barrel. That equates to a production number of approximately 65,000 total, which is what I would classify as “common”.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 12
Member Since:
October 10, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
September 14, 2021 - 1:14 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert,

Thanks for the information!  You cleared that one up in a hurry!  I’ve decided to pass on it for now.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 6315
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
September 14, 2021 - 1:28 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

ck4241 said
Bert,

Thanks for the information!  You cleared that one up in a hurry!  I’ve decided to pass on it for now.  

Pass? I’ve always liked the way half-round barreled rifles looked and handled. Lots of folks think they’re somewhat scarce and attractive so they’re easier to sell when and if you decide to thin the herd. OTOH don’t listen to me, I’ve been known to buy a rifle because I think the wood is pretty. 😉

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Board Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1363
Member Since:
December 21, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
September 14, 2021 - 1:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I love the Mod. ’94 with a 1/2 oct. bbl. but don’t care for the button mag. I think they’re especially attractive with a 22″ bbl’ and 12″  mag and a pistol grip stock

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 216
Member Since:
March 19, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
September 14, 2021 - 6:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Seems like half round barrels were usually paired with the button mag. I see far fewer half round and full magazines at least in my neck of the woods. I read somewhere that when a half round barrel was ordered it was automatically built with a half magazine unless magazine length was specified in the order. Don’t know if that is true or not.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12778
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
September 14, 2021 - 10:08 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

mike webb said
Seems like half round barrels were usually paired with the button mag. I see far fewer half round and full magazines at least in my neck of the woods. I read somewhere that when a half round barrel was ordered it was automatically built with a half magazine unless magazine length was specified in the order. Don’t know if that is true or not.  

Approximately 50% of the 1/2-octagon barreled Model 1894 Rifles I have surveyed have a full length magazine tube.  I have not ever seen anything documented (written) about a 1/2 mag being “automatic” (standard) with a 1/2-octagon barrel.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 216
Member Since:
March 19, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
September 15, 2021 - 4:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

No kidding, 50 percent. Here in eastern Canada I see at least 10 half mags for every full magazine in half round 1894’s. That is over the 40 years I have been interested in Winchesters. Must be a regional thing.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12778
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
September 15, 2021 - 7:44 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

mike webb said
No kidding, 50 percent. Here in eastern Canada I see at least 10 half mags for every full magazine in half round 1894’s. That is over the 40 years I have been interested in Winchesters. Must be a regional thing.  

I just ran the numbers in my survey spreadsheet;

half-octagon barrels & magazine lengths;

Full = 207

1/2 = 193

2/3 = 18

3/4 = 1

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 35
Member Since:
May 5, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
July 2, 2025 - 6:17 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said

mike webb said

No kidding, 50 percent. Here in eastern Canada I see at least 10 half mags for every full magazine in half round 1894’s. That is over the 40 years I have been interested in Winchesters. Must be a regional thing.  

I just ran the numbers in my survey spreadsheet;

half-octagon barrels & magazine lengths;

Full = 207

1/2 = 193

2/3 = 18

3/4 = 1

Bert

  

Good information from a few years back.  I agree with Mike as most I’ve seen have 1/2 magazines.  I just picked one up with the full magazine.  Researching I found one in “takedown” with a full magazine.  That would make the full magazines approximately 5-6% of total production. I wonder what percentage of these were takedown?

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2536
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
July 3, 2025 - 1:26 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

A few years ago, on  the Net, I found a really nice, early, 38-55 1/2 oct. full magazine. Mint bore too, so I bought it. Sent for a letter and found the rifle had sat in the whse. for 5 1/2 years. I guess the popularity of the caliber, 1/2 oct. bbls and full magazines had waned. # 348721 was PR’d 4-5-07. Shipped in 1912.

I really like this rifle. Most have bad bores. Not  this one.    Big Larry

M1894-348731-2-2.JPGImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12778
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
July 3, 2025 - 1:45 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

OK, here are new (updated) numbers from my ongoing research survey.  The survey begins at serial number 354000 and it runs through 1159897 (May 1907 to January 1938).

In that specified serial number range (805,898 total guns), I have surveyed & documented 13,755 guns (12,045 M/94s, 709 M/55s, and 1,001 M/64s). 

Of the 12,045 M/94s, 5,808 are M/94 “Rifles” (the other 6,237 are Carbines).

Of the 5,808 Rifles, 505 of them have ½ Octagon barrels (or 8.7%)… not a statistical number that could reasonably be considered rare or even uncommon.

Of the 505 rifles with ½ Octagon barrels, the magazine tube length breakdown is as follows;

Full = 220 (43.56%)

½ = 259 (51.29%)

⅔ = 19 (3.76%)

¾ = 1

⅞ = 2

Of the 505 rifles with ½ Octagon barrels, 207 are Take Downs.  The magazine tube lengths for the Take Down rifles almost mirrors the overall statistics.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2536
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
July 3, 2025 - 7:20 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert, does your survey list the calibers for the 1/2 oct. bbl. rifles? I would think the scacer calibers would be the 38-55, 32-40, and the 25-35. Big Larry

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12778
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
July 3, 2025 - 5:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Big Larry said
Bert, does your survey list the calibers for the 1/2 oct. bbl. rifles? I would think the scacer calibers would be the 38-55, 32-40, and the 25-35. Big Larry

It does…

30 WCF = 189 (37.4%)

32 WS = 168 (33.3%)

25-35 WCF = 61 (12.1%)

38-55 = 50 (9.9%)

32-40 = 37 (7.3%)

Bret

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2536
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
July 4, 2025 - 1:26 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thanks Bert. I can assume my 38-55, at 50 rifles, can be considered scarce?  Big Larry

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12778
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
July 4, 2025 - 2:09 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Big Larry said
Thanks Bert. I can assume my 38-55, at 50 rifles, can be considered scarce?  Big Larry

I am more inclined to say that it is “uncommon” versus “scarce”. 

Keep in mind that my research survey currently has just 1.7% of the total 805,989 guns documented.  Theoretically, if the (50) half-octagon 38-55s documented thus far are the same percentage (1.7%) of the total half-octagon barreled rifles that were manufactured, the extrapolated (potential) number of half-octagon 38-55s could or would be approximately 2,930 rifles.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2536
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
July 4, 2025 - 4:27 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Well Bert,out of 7 1/2 million M94’s, and some sort of survival rate, I certainly would call them scarce. Not pushing my particular rifle, but I cannot remember seeing another for sale recently. I do have a nicer 1916 full oct. bbl in 38-55, and proud owner of a 38-55 SRC. All 3 were a tough find. Maybe, due to the lack of, is why they are so expensive. BTW, thanks for all you do. I am now into collecting Colts.   Big Larry

Avatar
Star ID
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 147
Member Since:
March 3, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
July 4, 2025 - 4:47 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Big Larry said
A few years ago, on  the Net, I found a really nice, early, 38-55 1/2 oct. full magazine. Mint bore too, so I bought it. Sent for a letter and found the rifle had sat in the whse. for 5 1/2 years. I guess the popularity of the caliber, 1/2 oct. bbls and full magazines had waned. # 348721 was PR’d 4-5-07. Shipped in 1912.

I really like this rifle. Most have bad bores. Not  this one.    Big Larry

M1894-348731-2-2.JPGImage Enlarger

  

Interestingly enough,I encountered (and bought) a very similar rifle about 7 or so years ago.Mine is also 1/2 octagon, 38-55, full magazine, and mirror bright bore that slugs to .379. It letters to 1901 and left the factory configured as it is now.

It is a wonderful shooter, and has won me a fair share of silhouette matches.

Looking at Bert’s numbers – maybe not rare, but certainly uncommon….  anecdotally, anyway.  I have been a regular gun show attendee for decades, and cannot recall the last time I saw one like mine.  I have seen a few in 30-30.

 

Image Enlarger

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 903
Member Since:
December 9, 2002
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
19
July 4, 2025 - 5:26 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

A couple very nice examples are shared here! Smile

It’s days like this, and having our freedom to share and do so with other like minded people that we can appreciate our Independence and Freedom! Smile

Thanks Guy’s!

 

Anthony

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5108
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
July 4, 2025 - 8:00 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

John D. said

Big Larry said

A few years ago, on  the Net, I found a really nice, early, 38-55 1/2 oct. full magazine. Mint bore too, so I bought it. Sent for a letter and found the rifle had sat in the whse. for 5 1/2 years. I guess the popularity of the caliber, 1/2 oct. bbls and full magazines had waned. # 348721 was PR’d 4-5-07. Shipped in 1912.

I really like this rifle. Most have bad bores. Not  this one.    Big Larry

M1894-348731-2-2.JPGImage Enlarger

  

Interestingly enough,I encountered (and bought) a very similar rifle about 7 or so years ago.Mine is also 1/2 octagon, 38-55, full magazine, and mirror bright bore that slugs to .379. It letters to 1901 and left the factory configured as it is now.

It is a wonderful shooter, and has won me a fair share of silhouette matches.

Looking at Bert’s numbers – maybe not rare, but certainly uncommon….  anecdotally, anyway.  I have been a regular gun show attendee for decades, and cannot recall the last time I saw one like mine.  I have seen a few in 30-30.

 

Image Enlarger

  

Interestingly enough, earlier today I was reading the M1894 section in Mike Venturino’s Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West.

He tested all chamberings that the M1894 came in.  He states, “In the beginning I had no intention of firing blackpowder in any of these five cartridges but right at the end of my test shooting, I decided to give it a try in .38-55 caliber.  Am I glad I did!  The .38-55 groups were the tightest ones given by blackpowder in any cartridge I tried.”

The .38-55 was of course around before Winchester chambered it in their single-shot or M1894 and was in the winner’s circle in many matches.  

I’ve enjoyed the .38-55 in not only the M1894’s I’ve owned (rifles and carbines) but also in the Savage 1899’s I’ve owned (rifles and carbines) and the Marlin M1893’s I’ve owned (rifles and carbines).  Oh, and there was one .38-55 Remington Lee sporting rifle.  In the Winchester, Marlin and Savage lever rifles, it was the largest bore cartridge offered – which I’m sure influenced its appeal to me.

I don’t have a half-round M1894 .38-55, but I do have a half-round Marlin M1893 .38-55 (with half magazine).  

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 6315
Chuck: 5740
steve004: 5108
1873man: 4689
Big Larry: 2536
twobit: 2489
mrcvs: 2164
Maverick: 2008
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 14616
Posts: 130515

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 2049
Members: 9916
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation