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Model 61 Research Survey
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sjcope13
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May 22, 2018 - 11:43 pm
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Serial # 63487

S, L, LR

Steel Butt plate

17 grooves on for end

drilled and tapped and includes adjustable peep sight

https://i.imgur.com/MgOMd8X.jpgImage Enlarger

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sjcope13
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May 22, 2018 - 11:48 pm
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I meant iron sights,,,can’t edit my previous post.

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June 12, 2018 - 7:44 pm
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I have two M61 in my collection:

 

Serial # 155

Chambered 22 S/L/LR

Tang D&T

Checkered steel butt plate

Smooth receiver top

11 groove forearm

No letter under serial #

 

Serial # 48997

Chambered 22 S/L/LR

Tang D&T

Checkered steel butt plate

Smooth receiver top

17 groove forearm

“W” under serial #

 

Both of them has brittish proofs.

 

Stefan

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June 12, 2018 - 9:26 pm
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Thanks so much Steff!  Both are new rifles for the survey.  #155 should have a collared magazine end and the muzzle face should be cut perfectly flat.

Michael

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June 13, 2018 - 1:57 am
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285474, round, 22 WIN. MAG. R.F., not D&T’d, plastic butt plate.

 

Mike

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June 13, 2018 - 9:47 am
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TXGunNut said
285474, round, 22 WIN. MAG. R.F., not D&T’d, plastic butt plate.

 

Mike  

Thanks Mike.  The first mag I have seen is 284081.  1960 DOM.

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June 13, 2018 - 11:19 am
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twobit said
Thanks so much Steff!  Both are new rifles for the survey.  #155 should have a collared magazine end and the muzzle face should be cut perfectly flat.

Michael  

muzzle

20180613_131126_kl.jpgImage Enlarger

magazine end

20180613_131116_kl.jpgImage Enlarger

Greetings from Germany

 

Steff

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June 13, 2018 - 11:34 am
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Thanks Steff!!

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June 14, 2018 - 2:38 am
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twobit said

Thanks Mike.  The first mag I have seen is 284081.  1960 DOM.  

Thanks, Michael. Good to know.

 

Mike

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June 16, 2018 - 2:10 am
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Michael-

Do you have some idea how many 61 Magnum rifles were built? Maybe even how many had the early barrel marking? Madis’ treatise on the subject is lacking and only somewhat correct.

Thinking pretty hard about adding Schwing’s second volume on the 61’s and 62’s to my growing library.

 

Mike

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June 16, 2018 - 10:41 am
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TXGunNut said
Michael-

Do you have some idea how many 61 Magnum rifles were built? Maybe even how many had the early barrel marking? Madis’ treatise on the subject is lacking and only somewhat correct.

Thinking pretty hard about adding Schwing’s second volume on the 61’s and 62’s to my growing library.

 

Mike  

Good morning Mike,

I would highly recommend picking up a copy of Schwing’s book.   But, I will warn you that they do come cheap when you find one.  

I started my Model 61 survey in an attempt to answer questions just like this.  For as good as the Schwing book is there is little accurate population statistics based on a large sample of known rifles.  Here is a reply to the same question asked back in November 0f 2016.  I will work on recalculating the numbers for the larger sample I have now and also post that data.

The magnum version of the Model 61 was introduced during 1960 and therefore made for the last 4 years of production. Based on the data I have collected the production range is from SN 284081 (the earliest magnum chambered SN I have catalogued) to SN 349288, ( the last magnum recorded and also the highest serial number I have) for a total production range stretching over of 65,207 rifles. In this range I have catalogued a total of 969 representative rifles of which 653, or 67.4% are magnums. That percentage of the total 65207 would result in 43,949 magnums having been produced between mid 1960 and the end of production in 1963.

And do be aware of this post which I put up on the RFC forum in December of 2016.

If you look at the data presented by Schwing regarding the number of individual rifles produced there is a problem. For the year 1960 he shows on chart 61-3 on page 125 that the Standard rifle in S,L,&LR sold 9,848 units. On page 126, chart 61-4 indicates that 14,154 Magnums were sold. That is a total of 24,002 total rifles produced. There were a few LR Shot only but that number is minimal. Now, if you go to page 120 and look at “end of year” serial numbers that “data” shows that there were 30,322 total rifles produced! Houston, we have a problem because there are then 6,320 rifles unaccounted for!!!!! 

If you look at the same data for the year 1961 it works out to there being 1,142 less rifles produced than were sold!!

I can not speak to the viability of Ned’s work or the accuracy of his data. In my survey, and the results I derive from it, are based using the end of year SN information in Schwing’s book (supported by PR records from up to 1954 and “records kept by the production manager” from 1954 to 1963 p. 116) and then sampling the rifles that we collectors are exposed to in the auction world. I have no reason to think that one Model 61 chamber variation would be preferentially being sold and thus skew the results.

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June 16, 2018 - 1:04 pm
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I updated the same paragraph that is quoted above with my current total numbers:

The magnum version of the Model 61 was introduced during 1960 and therefore made for the last 4 years of production. Based on the data I have collected the production range is from SN 284081 (the earliest magnum chambered SN I have catalogued) to SN 349288, ( the last magnum recorded and also the highest serial number I have) for a total production range stretching over of 65,207 rifles. In this range I have catalogued a total of 1230 representative rifles of which 833, or 67.7% are magnums. That percentage of the total 65,207 would result in 44,145 magnums having been produced between mid 1960 and the end of production in 1963.

Michael

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June 16, 2018 - 2:59 pm
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Michael-

Very interesting! My best guess would have been 25% or less of the rifles in that range would have been Magnums. I’m fairly new to the 61 and this is the first of this variation I’ve seen. 

Schwing’s book is on the way, will complement the First Volume I have made good use of. It was expensive but books have been very good investments for me. 

Thanks for all the hard work of data gathering and research!

 

Mike

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June 16, 2018 - 5:41 pm
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Mike,

The .22 Magnum apparently was quite popular when it was introduced.  Between SN 291677 to 307835, an interval of 16,158 rifles I have sampled 630 individuals.  Out of that group only 17 are standard Short, Long, Long rifle variations!

Micahel

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July 8, 2018 - 2:45 am
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Model 61 Serial # 117115 Round barrel S L LR.

Looked at it tonight at Cabela’s in Sidney Ne.

If you need anything more let me know.

Your doing great work

Jay

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July 8, 2018 - 10:30 am
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cranky2 said
Model 61 Serial # 117115 Round barrel S L LR.

Looked at it tonight at Cabela’s in Sidney Ne.

If you need anything more let me know.

Your doing great work

Jay  

Thanks Jay for the information on the rifle.   I have added it to my survey.

Michael

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October 1, 2018 - 9:51 pm
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Ran across a couple of 61’s, at least one will be a new entry for the survey.

144368 round S,L,LR not D&T’d

259174 round S,L,LR not D&T’d (Grooved receiver)

Both have steel butt plates.

 

Mike

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October 2, 2018 - 1:27 am
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TXGunNut said
Ran across a couple of 61’s, at least one will be a new entry for the survey.

144368 round S,L,LR not D&T’d

259174 round S,L,LR not D&T’d (Grooved receiver)

Both have steel butt plates.

 

Mike  

Thanks Mike,

They are both new guns for the data!!!

Michael

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October 11, 2018 - 4:22 am
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twobit said

TXGunNut said
Michael-

Do you have some idea how many 61 Magnum rifles were built? Maybe even how many had the early barrel marking? Madis’ treatise on the subject is lacking and only somewhat correct.

Thinking pretty hard about adding Schwing’s second volume on the 61’s and 62’s to my growing library.

 

Mike  

How many of the recorded magnums have the WMRF barrel markings???

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March 16, 2019 - 2:14 am
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Just acquired:

 

1) Serial number 189136
2) Round barrel

3) .22 S,L.OR LR   

4) Not drilled/tapped on tang

5) No “W” below serial number

6) Butt plate checkered steel

7) Polished Blued receiver top

Came with original (pretty sure) canvas carry case. 

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