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…
Here's the info on prices of the Winchester 52 Sporting rifle relative to the price of the Winchester Model 70 Standard grade, as taken from the 1938 Stoeger Shooter's Bible.
The price of the 52 Sporting Rifle with Lyman 48 sight was $88.50.
The price…
…of the basic Model 70 with 22-G rear sight was $61.25.
The Model 70 with the Lyman 48 sight was $74.25.
The Model 70 Super Grade with 22G rear sight was $84.85.
The Model 70 Super Grade with Lyman 48 sight was $97.85.
So the 52 Sporting…
…rifle was on par with the Model 70 Super Grade, where price was concerned, selling for 90% of the Model 70 Super Grade price, when equipped with comparable sights!
BRP
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…m in agreement with you Steve.
It is my understanding, that these, model 52, "Sporting Rifles", cost more than a standard model 70, at that time! Hard for me to believe that, in all reality, but there's plenty of more knowledgeable people here on this forum, that can either
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…this article from the NRA Shooting Sports USA...
https://www.ssusa.org/content/the-wimbledon-cup/
In it is a brief description of the target that Ben Comfort shot at to win the Wimbledon Cup in 1935. The Wimbledon match consisted of 20-shots (plus two sighting-in shots) fired at 1000…
…. The barrel was one of the first 28-inch Extra Heavy contour barrels in 300 MAGNUM made by Winchester.
The 1935 Wimbledon match used the "V" target, which had a 36-inch five-count bulls eye and a smaller 20-inch V-ring. We'd call it the "X" ring on a small bore target with ten scoring rings…
…14 were inside of 20-inches. I believe that, to even be visible at 1000-yards, both the 54-inch 4-ring and inner 36-inch 5-ring of the "V" target were black, as on the "C" target I mentioned above.
What's interesting to me, as an aside, is that in 1935 Winchester was making the M54 "Sniper…
…s Match" rifle. This was the forerunner to the M70 Bull Gun and had a 26-inch Extra Heavy barrel (same as the bull gun contour just 2-inches shorter) in 30 GOV'T'06. The Model 54 receiver as…
…on a 1917 Enfield action with a Winchester 300 MAGNUM Bull Gun barrel...
Here's a pic of Tedk's M54 Sniper's Match rifle for comparison to the M70 Bull Gun.
I'm sure Comfort's exploits added impetus to Winchester's decision to market the M70 Bull Gun in 1937 in 300 H&H MAGNUM as well…
…as 30 GOV'T'06...
As for what they were using for a target in Peekskill NY in 1938, they don't say... But if Sam Tekulsky's score for the 100 shot match was (99)x5 plus (1)x4 as it says in the ad, it…
…was probably the "C" target with no "V' ring. So (99) consecutive shots into a 36-inch circle at 1000 yards would be my guess.
Cheers,
Lou
Lou, things have
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…s inability to always aim at EXACTLY the same point, a rifle capable of only 3 MOA accuracy at 100 yards would be capable of hitting a 30-inch target at 1000 yards every time.
But conditions in 1000-yard prone shooting are far from "perfect". Even if we assume that the shooter/rifle…
…combination is capable of 1 MOA accuracy (no more than 0.5 MOA point-of-impact dispersion from the "true" center of the target), there's the "randomness" of atmospheric conditions to consider. Assuming that the bullets are initially launched with sufficient precision that…
…all (100) of them would pass through a 1 MOA circle at 100 yards, the distance the bullet must travel before striking the target is 10X that. Moreover, the time of flight is MUCH longer than 10X that of a bullet traveling only 100 yards, as it is slowing down continuously. …
…) in a 36" (3.5 MOA) circle at 1000 yards. When Carlos Hathcock, the famed Viet Nam USMC sniper, won the Wimbledon Cup in 1965 (shooting a Model 70), his score was 100-17V. Not much better than Ben Comfort's (100-14V) score from 30-years earlier...
In my view, the "F" Class 1000…
…-yard target I was reading about, with 5" (0.5 MOA) X-ring and 10" (1 MOA) 10-ring is cruel and unusual punishment. It gets to the point where the target…
…t have been competitive if I had tried... Last year, seewin's Nephew, who competes in ARA "unlimited" 22 rimfire bench rest, showed me one of the targets they shoot at 50-yards. Twenty-five little black "dots" on a single target, each about the diameter of a .22 caliber bullet. Scoring is you…
…either hit it or you miss it... The target he showed me was "used", in that he'd shot it in competition a couple days before. ALL (25) shots were "hits"... I was in AWE!!!
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…this article from the NRA Shooting Sports USA...
https://www.ssusa.org/content/the-wimbledon-cup/
In it is a brief description of the target that Ben Comfort shot at to win the Wimbledon Cup in 1935. The Wimbledon match consisted of 20-shots (plus two sighting-in shots) fired at 1000…
…. The barrel was one of the first 28-inch Extra Heavy contour barrels in 300 MAGNUM made by Winchester.
The 1935 Wimbledon match used the "V" target, which had a 36-inch five-count bulls eye and a smaller 20-inch V-ring. We'd call it the "X" ring on a small bore target with ten scoring rings…
…14 were inside of 20-inches. I believe that, to even be visible at 1000-yards, both the 54-inch 4-ring and inner 36-inch 5-ring of the "V" target were black, as on the "C" target I mentioned above.
What's interesting to me, as an aside, is that in 1935 Winchester was making the M54 "Sniper…
…s Match" rifle. This was the forerunner to the M70 Bull Gun and had a 26-inch Extra Heavy barrel (same as the bull gun contour just 2-inches shorter) in 30 GOV'T'06. The Model 54 receiver as…
…on a 1917 Enfield action with a Winchester 300 MAGNUM Bull Gun barrel...
Here's a pic of Tedk's M54 Sniper's Match rifle for comparison to the M70 Bull Gun.
I'm sure Comfort's exploits added impetus to Winchester's decision to market the M70 Bull Gun in 1937 in 300 H&H MAGNUM as well…
…as 30 GOV'T'06...
As for what they were using for a target in Peekskill NY in 1938, they don't say... But if Sam Tekulsky's score for the 100 shot match was (99)x5 plus (1)x4 as it says in the ad, it…
…was probably the "C" target with no "V' ring. So (99) consecutive shots into a 36-inch circle at 1000 yards would be my guess.
Cheers,
Lou
Lou,
Do you never
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…Bolt Plugs which were manufactured for the Model 47 and were identical except for the finish.
This occurred on both the Model 69 and the 75 Target and 75 Sporting during that specific time period. No other bolt components were chromed, just the Breech Bolt Plug. By mid-1955 Winchester had
…this article from the NRA Shooting Sports USA...
https://www.ssusa.org/content/the-wimbledon-cup/
In it is a brief description of the target that Ben Comfort shot at to win the Wimbledon Cup in 1935. The Wimbledon match consisted of 20-shots (plus two sighting-in shots) fired at 1000…
…. The barrel was one of the first 28-inch Extra Heavy contour barrels in 300 MAGNUM made by Winchester.
The 1935 Wimbledon match used the "V" target, which had a 36-inch five-count bulls eye and a smaller 20-inch V-ring. We'd call it the "X" ring on a small bore target with ten scoring rings…
…14 were inside of 20-inches. I believe that, to even be visible at 1000-yards, both the 54-inch 4-ring and inner 36-inch 5-ring of the "V" target were black, as on the "C" target I mentioned above.
What's interesting to me, as an aside, is that in 1935 Winchester was making the M54 "Sniper…
…s Match" rifle. This was the forerunner to the M70 Bull Gun and had a 26-inch Extra Heavy barrel (same as the bull gun contour just 2-inches shorter) in 30 GOV'T'06. The Model 54 receiver as…
…on a 1917 Enfield action with a Winchester 300 MAGNUM Bull Gun barrel...
Here's a pic of Tedk's M54 Sniper's Match rifle for comparison to the M70 Bull Gun.
I'm sure Comfort's exploits added impetus to Winchester's decision to market the M70 Bull Gun in 1937 in 300 H&H MAGNUM as well…
…as 30 GOV'T'06...
As for what they were using for a target in Peekskill NY in 1938, they don't say... But if Sam Tekulsky's score for the 100 shot match was (99)x5 plus (1)x4 as it says in the ad, it…
…was probably the "C" target with no "V' ring. So (99) consecutive shots into a 36-inch circle at 1000 yards would be my guess.
Cheers,
Lou
…the inherent accuracy of the rifle.
A rifle capable of 2 MOA can deliver 20 inch groups at 1000 yards. If the rifleman can keep center on the target, that is more than sufficient.
My experience with the Model 70 bull gun has consisted of picking one up at a DGCA show and wondering how long I
…said
Zebulon said
Good afternoon, Chuck. You've devoted plenty of carefully considered time and effort in evaluating a typical Pre64 Model 70, to explore its accuracy limits with modern powders and projectiles. A worthy and interesting project that should add a piece of useful knowledge to…
…the Model 70 story.
The late Jack O'Connor wrote his various Model 70 rifles (some built by the best custom stockmakers of the day) would from the bench shoot 100 yard groups averaging between 1.5 to 1.75 inches…
…. He considered these levels of accuracy more than adequate for any game hunting, including antelope and sheep.
Given your studies of this 270 caliber Model 70, would you disagree with O'Connor?
Best,
Bill
I could never disagree with Mr. O'Conner. But, I only have…
…my supper, that was (almost) the last bird I've "ground sluiced."
From what you've posted that I've read, I remain unconvinced your Model 70 would have shot better those decades ago. We know that, for the most part, factory ammunition today is more consistent and some of it is at or near…
…match grade. Thanks to computer analysis, we have a better idea of how and why to set the torque numbers for the Model 70 action bolts and the forward barrel tensioning screw. I'm guessing the unknowable total round count on that 270 isn't high enough to seriously…
…and validate your manhood with a rifle priced like a new Tacoma.
Fewer and fewer of us actually experience seeing the apparent size of a target put up "only" 300 yards away. As the late Colonel Charles Askins put it, 300 yards is "just one hell of a long way" to be shooting at a game animal
…said
Good afternoon, Chuck. You've devoted plenty of carefully considered time and effort in evaluating a typical Pre64 Model 70, to explore its accuracy limits with modern powders and projectiles. A worthy and interesting project that should add a piece of useful knowledge to…
…the Model 70 story.
The late Jack O'Connor wrote his various Model 70 rifles (some built by the best custom stockmakers of the day) would from the bench shoot 100 yard groups averaging between 1.5 to 1.75 inches…
…. He considered these levels of accuracy more than adequate for any game hunting, including antelope and sheep.
Given your studies of this 270 caliber Model 70, would you disagree with O'Connor?
Best,
Bill
I don't expect MOA accuracy from a sporting rifle but it's pretty…
…was adverteased as "MOA" and after one warranty replacement and repair I finally have what they feel qualifies as MOA. I feel confident Chuck's .270 is an above average specimen and may very well be capable of MOA.
Mike
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…said
Good afternoon, Chuck. You've devoted plenty of carefully considered time and effort in evaluating a typical Pre64 Model 70, to explore its accuracy limits with modern powders and projectiles. A worthy and interesting project that should add a piece of useful knowledge to…
…the Model 70 story.
The late Jack O'Connor wrote his various Model 70 rifles (some built by the best custom stockmakers of the day) would from the bench shoot 100 yard groups averaging between 1.5 to 1.75 inches…
…. He considered these levels of accuracy more than adequate for any game hunting, including antelope and sheep.
Given your studies of this 270 caliber Model 70, would you disagree with O'Connor?
Best,
Bill
I could never disagree with Mr. O'Conner. But, I only have experience
