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…Bert H. said

I just looked through my survey, and low and behold, there are several other Model 1894s in the same serial number range as your Eastern Carbine that have a Fluted Comb butt stock with a serrated steel shotgun butt plate.  It…

…that Winchester may have introduced them as a special order item at some point in 1913 before they made them standard in 1924 on several different models.

Bert 

Bert, good catch.  This particular configuration, eastern carbine, the fluted comb with shotgun butt, and shorter 2/3 magazine is

…H. said

CJS57 said

Let's go over what is necessary to make a plain 94 .32 into a model 64 25-35 carbine. It will need a complete lower receiver and lever. Also a new butt stock and forearm and barrel and magazine tube. So the only…

…part remaining from the Model 94 is the upper receiver. It would be very difficult to locate all these parts to build a fake 64. So it must have been a once complete 64 with a…

…defaced serial number or other damage. Then the "new" Model 94 receiver was added to the parts package. Need to see the proofs on the barrel and receiver for forensic matching. 

Anyone else have a theory…

…about how it was created?  

Not a "theory"... instead Fact.

The fellow who created this Fake Model 64 is well known to me (and several other WACA members), and he is known to have "manufactured" dozens of Fake Winchesters in rare or very uncommon…

…ago it was said that he bought up a large batch of Winchester barrels and parts when Winchester began disposing of them (in the late 1960s).  This Model 64 (and several others in calibers 32-40 and 38-55) suddenly appeared for sale about 13-14 years ago.  A good friend of mine bought three of…

…errors that can be detected by someone who knows what to look for.  I personally had my hands on this gun (serial number) when it was still a Model 94 Carbine in caliber 32 W.S.  (at the Big Reno show).  The crook who altered it routinely trolled the isles at the Big Reno show looking for…

…nice condition Model 94 Carbines (which at the time were relatively cheap to procure) to use for his "projects".

Bert

Is this individual a member of the WACA

…just looked through my survey, and low and behold, there are several other Model 1894s in the same serial number range as your Eastern Carbine that have a Fluted Comb butt stock with a serrated steel shotgun butt plate.  It…

…that Winchester may have introduced them as a special order item at some point in 1913 before they made them standard in 1924 on several different models.

Bert

…said

A note of interest: My MODEL 64 25-35 carbine has a roll mark in front of the front sight.  "J. F. KREUZ  AUSTIN TEX."  I was informed that because of the roll mark

…1914 production Carbine?

Winchester introduced the serrated steel style shotgun butt plate in June 1924, and it was the standard butt plate on the Models 53, 54, and 55.  It became an optional butt plate on a few other models (namely the Model 94 Carbines) at the same time, and then became the…

…standard butt plate on the Model 94 in June of 1937.  Winchester finally discontinued it when Post WW II production resumed.  

Bert

  Having a heck of a time trying to navigate

…1914 production Carbine?

Winchester introduced the serrated steel style shotgun butt plate in June 1924, and it was the standard butt plate on the Models 53, 54, and 55.  It became an optional butt plate on a few other models (namely the Model 94 Carbines) at the same time, and then became the…

…standard butt plate on the Model 94 in June of 1937.  Winchester finally discontinued it when Post WW II production resumed.  

Bert

…said

A note of interest: My MODEL 64 25-35 carbine has a roll mark in front of the front sight.  "J. F. KREUZ  AUSTIN TEX."  I was informed that because of the roll mark

…rogertherelic said

A note of interest: My MODEL 64 25-35 carbine has a roll mark in front of the front sight.  "J. F. KREUZ  AUSTIN TEX."  I was informed that because of the roll mark

…note of interest: My MODEL 64 25-35 carbine has a roll mark in front of the front sight.  "J. F. KREUZ  AUSTIN TEX."  I was informed that because of the roll mark

…carved in stone idea when this type of buttplate was introduced ?  What I nick name Model 55 style ? On a 1914 eastern carbine 2/3 mag .  Bert ?  . Thx 

cheers 

…said

Let's go over what is necessary to make a plain 94 .32 into a model 64 25-35 carbine. It will need a complete lower receiver and lever. Also a new butt stock and forearm and barrel and magazine tube. So the only…

…part remaining from the Model 94 is the upper receiver. It would be very difficult to locate all these parts to build a fake 64. So it must have been a once complete 64 with a…

…defaced serial number or other damage. Then the "new" Model 94 receiver was added to the parts package. Need to see the proofs on the barrel and receiver for forensic matching. 

Anyone else have a theory…

…about how it was created?  

Not a "theory"... instead Fact.

The fellow who created this Fake Model 64 is well known to me (and several other WACA members), and he is known to have "manufactured" dozens of Fake Winchesters in rare or very uncommon…

…ago it was said that he bought up a large batch of Winchester barrels and parts when Winchester began disposing of them (in the late 1960s).  This Model 64 (and several others in calibers 32-40 and 38-55) suddenly appeared for sale about 13-14 years ago.  A good friend of mine bought three of…

…errors that can be detected by someone who knows what to look for.  I personally had my hands on this gun (serial number) when it was still a Model 94 Carbine in caliber 32 W.S.  (at the Big Reno show).  The crook who altered it routinely trolled the isles at the Big Reno show looking for…

…nice condition Model 94 Carbines (which at the time were relatively cheap to procure) to use for his "projects".

Bert

…s go over what is necessary to make a plain 94 .32 into a model 64 25-35 carbine. It will need a complete lower receiver and lever. Also a new butt stock and forearm and barrel and magazine tube. So the only…

…part remaining from the Model 94 is the upper receiver. It would be very difficult to locate all these parts to build a fake 64. So it must have been a once complete 64 with a…

…defaced serial number or other damage. Then the "new" Model 94 receiver was added to the parts package. Need to see the proofs on the barrel and receiver for forensic matching. 

Anyone else have a theory

…they aren't the same gun.  The serial number appears different

https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/winchester-1-rifles-for-sale/winchester-model-64-carbine-25-35-wcf

…have seen models 90, 06, 53, 55, 73, 94 with them, I have a 94 carbine with one

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…Gunbroker and noticed an 86 with a stainless barrel. Legit? If so how many of these were made? 

That is the (1) of (8) late production Model 1886 rifles that has been surveyed with a Stainless Steel barrel, and Yes, it is legit. 

While Stainless Steel barrels are not common, they are…

…not exactly rare either.  The term "uncommon" is a more accurate analogy.  Thus far, all (8) the Model 1886 rifles that have been identified are in the 155768 - 158656 serial number range.

Bert

Bert - did you already have this rifle in your

…a time. No one ever showed me how to post this stuff.

Unfortunately I have bad news for you.  When I originally surveyed the S/N on your Model 64, it was a standard Model 94 Carbine in caliber 32 W.S.  I am relatively sure who it was that intentionally reworked it to sell resell it for a

…Gunbroker and noticed an 86 with a stainless barrel. Legit? If so how many of these were made? 

That is the (1) of (8) late production Model 1886 rifles that has been surveyed with a Stainless Steel barrel, and Yes, it is legit. 

While Stainless Steel barrels are not common, they are…

…not exactly rare either.  The term "uncommon" is a more accurate analogy.  Thus far, all (8) the Model 1886 rifles that have been identified are in the 155768 - 158656 serial number range.

Bert

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…have a similar 64.  Serial #1236315.  Also not tapped for the receiver sight.  Oddly the two 64's I have with bolt peep sights are tapped for the receiver sight.  RDB

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*** Sorry, all the search terms matched were in html attributes (such as image source) and are not displayed in the results excerpt

*** Sorry, all the search terms matched were in html attributes (such as image source) and are not displayed in the results excerpt

*** Sorry, all the search terms matched were in html attributes (such as image source) and are not displayed in the results excerpt

*** Sorry, all the search terms matched were in html attributes (such as image source) and are not displayed in the results excerpt

…t see enough of the rifle to draw any conclusions... what is the serial number on it?

The 20-inch "carbine" variation of the Model 64 is the least common variation, and especially so in caliber 25-35.  Of the 3,301 Model 64 rifles I have documented thus far (in my research

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…everyone, 

I have a few books on the 1885 and 94 Model, as well as 76 (Houze)...

I wonder if there is a book on the 1886 available, too? I would love to read about not only tech data but even more

…your description, it is a late production "Eastern" Carbine, and in typical condition.  The bluing on the receiver frames flaked terribly on the Model 94 Carbines and Model 55 rifles manufactured from 1924 - 1932, and in many cases, it is nearly 100% missing.

Bert

…may be in the last fewer than 200 guns made by Winchester pre the Olin acquisition in 1931. It's also only a few years away from them retiring this model for what became the "standard" 20 inch 94. For instance my grandfather had a mid-30's version in .32 Special that did not have the ladder site, I…

…time) but I haven't seen it in over 20 years. My uncle has it and I don't see him much, and never his firearms. I'd guess that was a "transition" model. 

Basically when I picked this up for just under $1300 fairly recently it was either this one, waiting for a Uberti repro to come in stock, or a …

…'63 with more modern features but better finish, and I opted for this one. I like the history, the old configuration (and especially that sight!) and