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Checked the link above for the forum guidelines and I personally find their forum attitude even more arrogant than the fraud complaint policy on GB. “If we deleted your post it means that we did not want it here. If we delete a post and you re-post it we will revoke your access privileges.“
That’s probably why I don’t have it bookmarked and hadn’t seen that forum in years.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I don’t have a problem with GB. I have used them a lot to buy and sell. There are only two other sites in my opinion and one of them is a total joke. I too put up a lot of good pictures, include a very descriptive description, and answer questions honestly and promptly. GB does have not a police force and, I would imagine, do not have a staff of experts and attorneys working for them. It is a bit hard to trust any of the online folks including the big and small auction houses. I was burned once on GB…several red flags waving, but I proceeded anyway. Sure they were crooks, but I had the warning and did not heed. As buyers we have to pay attention to what we see, and don’t see, what we read and don’t read. Ask questions of the seller and an expert in the field about what you’re buying. I consider myself pretty sharp in some areas, but will never buy a Colt or a Winchester without asking an expert in the field. As always it’s buyers beware! Peter
Eagle said
I don’t have a problem with GB. I have used them a lot to buy and sell. There are only two other sites in my opinion and one of them is a total joke. I too put up a lot of good pictures, include a very descriptive description, and answer questions honestly and promptly. GB does have not a police force and, I would imagine, do not have a staff of experts and attorneys working for them. It is a bit hard to trust any of the online folks including the big and small auction houses. I was burned once on GB…several red flags waving, but I proceeded anyway. Sure they were crooks, but I had the warning and did not heed. As buyers we have to pay attention to what we see, and don’t see, what we read and don’t read. Ask questions of the seller and an expert in the field about what you’re buying. I consider myself pretty sharp in some areas, but will never buy a Colt or a Winchester without asking an expert in the field. As always it’s buyers beware! Peter
Well stated,
The bottom line is KNOW what you are purchasing and who you are dealing with. At that point if you are you getting fair value for your money make the deal……..Easy enough
If you look at the high bidder, 8 of his 9 feedbacks are from this seller and another famous seller. Pretty easy to see what is going on there.
nanzca said
If you look at the high bidder, 8 of his 9 feedbacks are from this seller and another famous seller. Pretty easy to see what is going on there.
ONLY if you trouble yourself to scrutinize FB, as you did; suspect few bidders take the time to do so.
Nanzca, I noticed the feedback thing on the present high bidder also. I don’t think there is anything “going on” except that the sellers have found a pigeon who is obviously not well schooled on vintage firearms. All sellers hope to find such a person.
nanzca said
If you look at the high bidder, 8 of his 9 feedbacks are from this seller and another famous seller. Pretty easy to see what is going on there.
If the current high-bidder is truly a legitimate buyer, that poor soul threw his money away on 8 guns from two of the most crooked, fraudulent shysters on Gunbroker–all just since 2/1/17…
deerhunter said
I got a response from the winning bidder and he is very thankful for the tip. So far, it sounds like the seller is taking the blind eye to this matter, so he’s reporting the fraud to Gunbroker.
Nice going. Seems to be the only way to combat the crooked sellers on GB.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I agree that the seller is a crook, and don’t disagree with what you did, but be aware that there could be consequences from the seller and GB here. Just saying………..
Regarding the legal “can of worms” is WACA willing to take a position and then post a list of “suspected/known fraudulent sellers as we point them out?
Michael
It’s been a little while since I’ve read the Association By-Laws but I imagine they are already quite clear on such a matter. I’m no lawyer but I believe such a list would violate the association’s current “Terms & Conditions” and the “Privacy Policy”.
That said I don’t mind knowing about and encourage the sharing of information in regards to those that commit fraud. Or even firearms that have “issues” with them as having been toyed with or “redone”. But for the forum to create a “Shit List” to put people, sellers, or even someone’s User Name on is beneath them. I think such a thing is not warranted, at all. I have personally disagreed with other members of this forum about various topics over the years and would fill quite betrayed if someone were to put me on some kinda of such list. Granted I’m not talking outright fraud here but simple disagreements between members. I think outright finger pointing serves no purpose. These types of matters should be dealt with between the buyer and the seller and any appropriate authorities.
Sincerely,
Brady “Maverick” Henderson
P.S. I posted a copy of the WACA website’s Terms & Condition and Privacy Policy which I believe clearly point out the matter.
Terms & Conditions
Winchester Arms Collectors Association Terms and Conditions (“Agreement”)
This Agreement was last modified on February 05, 2014.
Please read these Terms and Conditions (“Agreement”, “Terms and Conditions”) carefully before using http://winchestercollector.org (“the Site”) operated by Winchester Arms Collectors Association (“us”, “we”, or “our”). This Agreement sets forth the legally binding terms and conditions for your use of the Site at http://winchestercollector.org.
By accessing or using the Site in any manner, including, but not limited to, visiting or browsing the Site or contributing content or other materials to the Site, you agree to be bound by these Terms and Conditions. Capitalized terms are defined in this Agreement.
Links To Other Sites
Our Site may contain links to third-party sites that are not owned or controlled by Winchester Arms Collectors Association.
Winchester Arms Collectors Association has no control over, and assumes no responsibility for, the content, privacy policies, or practices of any third party sites or services. We strongly advise you to read the terms and conditions and privacy policy of any third-party site that you visit.
Privacy Policy
Third party websites
Users may find advertising or other content on our Site that link to the sites and services of our partners, suppliers, advertisers, sponsors, licensors and other third parties. We do not control the content or links that appear on these sites and are not responsible for the practices employed by websites linked to or from our Site. In addition, these sites or services, including their content and links, may be constantly changing. These sites and services may have their own privacy policies and customer service policies. Browsing and interaction on any other website, including websites which have a link to our Site, is subject to that website’s own terms and policies.
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Captain Kummok said
I’ve sold one Winchester, via a WACA friend, on Gunbroker…otherwise, I just use it for reference…okay, and some drooling practice. Can’t imagine that Gunbroker would want this kind of blatant fraud on their site, if made aware with good evidence like Two Bit’s….anyone have experience with what comes of reporting this to them? Seems like a simple link to this thread would be enough!?!
I have reported two sellers to GB in the past. Once for the user named “sellingdadsoldguns” and once for “almostaranch” when they were selling under a different name. In both cases I provided proof of the listed rifles being fraudulent and in both cases GB acted to get the listings removed. I don’t know if GB canceled the listings themselves, or if they contacted the seller and told them to take the listings down. Whatever the case, I did find GB was responsive when presented with proof of fraud concerning a collectible gun.
To report a fraudulent auction on GB, go to THIS PAGE and select “Fraud” in the drop-down menu. From there, you can enter the auction number and the details of your complaint.
The frustrating thing for me is that GB does not seem to take action against the seller, other than removing a listing. Also worrying for me is the fact a GB seller can have a great deal of negative feedback with apparently no consequence from GB. eBay will get rid of sellers with too many negatives. As will Amazon. Yet GB will let them stay on as sellers and will even show an “A” rating next to their name, despite TONS of negative feedback. You have to click into the actual feedback and see how many negatives they have. The “A” rating means nothing.
Buying something valuable / collectible online is always a risk… and I say this as someone who owns an online business which sells collectible rifles. If you are sending much money at all, a buyer really needs an agreement in writing from the seller that no-risk returns are possible after a reasonable inspection period. We offer this for all parts and rifles sold through our site. I’d be worried about a seller who won’t agree to these terms, as these purchase conditions are not unreasonable when paying thousands of dollars for a used item which is 50-120 years old and all you have are low-resolution photos to judge it by. Even an honest seller’s description of condition and originality are so subjective, as to be worthless. A buyer really needs to hold it in their hands before making a final commitment to the purchase.
Justin
twobit said
And just in case you thought that MAYBE Gunbroker cared about the misrepresentation of guns on their website I posted a link to this conversation on the “Ask The Experts” forum supported by them. The title was “Why does Gunbroker Support Fraud?” Oh surprise!! Today it is gone!!!Michael
Realistically, no company which hosts a public discussion forum permits comments critical itself.
I work for a major aerospace company in Seattle which happens to have a blog website which permits reader comments. Comments which are abusive or which are critical of the hosting company are routinely deleted. The person who monitors those comments is not in charge of anything other than removing comments that don’t further the interests of the company. This means the comments area of the blog is the wrong place to raise a safety concern; “Why Doesn’t XYZ Care About Safety?”, or to complain about the comfort of the aircraft “XYZ Aircraft are Torture to Fly On.” There is a place to register these kinds of concerns, but comments like this made on the public discussion forum simply get deleted. I’m guessing your post received similar treatment.
There’s a process for raising concerns about fraud on GB (see my post above). If you go about it in the right way, GB may be more inclined to do something about it.
sb said
What was “Almost a Ranch” ‘s previous Gunbroker ID?
Not sure of the prior seller ID. The seller’s name is Lisa. There is a long discussion about some of her prior auctions here: https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/the-amount-of-refinished-fabricated-guns-is-getting-old/
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