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Winchester Reloading Tool Survey
April 6, 2015
6:17 pm
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Please see attached flyer for a New Survey i'm doing.

Sincerely,

(aka Maverick)

Brady Henderson

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April 16, 2015
2:26 pm
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Brady,

I have one really nice Winchester reloading tool (still in its original box) in 25-20 S.S. that you might find interesting.  Let me know what you need.

Bert

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April 16, 2015
6:19 pm
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Bert,

I sent you a PM.

Brady

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June 4, 2016
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As part of my on-going Research into Winchester Reloading Tools I've been looking the other like accessories produced by the factory.

Winchester Gun Grease was sold starting in 1892 (still working on this date, believe maybe earlier) in Metal Tubes for $0.15 a tube. In the October 1905 catalog it is noted that Grease was also "Packed 10 Tubes in a box".  I have seen several of these in wooden & cardboard boxes as seen in the Kowalski book.

Was wondering if anyone out there has seen or owns the 5 Pound Can of Grease listed for $2.00 in the October 1911 Catalog?

Also was wondering if anyone has seen or owns the One-Gallon Can of Gun Oil as noted in the Kowalski book?

Also Winchester Brand General Utility Oil was sold in one-gallon cans also, anyone have one of those?

Please let me know if you have any of these items as I would very much like to discuss them with you.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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October 13, 2018
3:38 am
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Up to the Top.

In the Fall 2018 Collector is a updated flyer for my Reloading Tool Survey.

Posted here 3 Years ago, and its still going, if anyone is interested.

You can see a snippet of the results of my survey in my article about the 3rd Winchester Bullet Mold on page 40.

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Would love to talk to anyone that has a love for these old tools.

Sincerely,

Brady "Maverick" Henderson

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October 13, 2018
8:18 pm
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Brady I have 3 Winchester tools.  Probably nothing rare.  Don't know the model #'s.

45-90 tool and bullet mold

45-75 tool, spoon handle, was gold at one time

44-40 tool and mold

October 13, 2018
9:47 pm
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Chuck,

The model number is the patent date year on the tool. Molds for the most part are either going to be a brass mold, a steel mold with metal handles or a steel mold with wood handles.

Bob

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October 14, 2018
1:25 am
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Chuck said
Brady I have 3 Winchester tools.  Probably nothing rare.  Don't know the model #'s.

45-90 tool and bullet mold

45-75 tool, spoon handle, was gold at one time

44-40 tool and mold  

Well depending on which tool it is, there necessarily may not be a "Model #", but what Collector's have termed Winchester Tools mostly using the Patent. But that is generalizing a bit.

45-90 Tools could be in a model 1894, 1891, 1888, or 1880.

45-75 Tools could be in a model 1894, 1880 & 1880 Spoon Handle, or 1875. With yours having once been gold and having spoon handles tells me it is likely a 1875 Tool. Not a "Rare" tool but somewhat "scarce" tool, partly due to demand and its age. 

44-40 Tools could be in a model 1882, 1875, or 1874.

And there is basically 5 types of bullet molds out there as well. 

Can you send me some pictures, as there are most helpful? Otherwise, give me a call and we can talk through which models you have.

Curious to know if your 45-75 Tool has assembly number on it? And if the upper handle is the variation which has a pivot pin in the handle over the die chamber?

Will also add, each one of your tools is of a caliber that is in demand by re-loaders, as there still plenty of guys that use these tools.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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October 14, 2018
1:52 am
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Here is a picture of the tools.  The 45-90 and the 44 WCF both have 1894 Patent dates.  The 45-75 is unmarked other than 45.75 WCF.

 

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October 14, 2018
3:17 pm
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I have four Winchester reloading tools, all Model 1882:

.44 W.C.F. - bearing 1874 and 1882 patents; .38 W.C.F. - bearing 1874 and 1882 patents; .38 W.C.F. - bearing only 1874 patent; .38 S. & W. SPL - bearing 1874 and 1882 patents, original decapping pin.

 

In addition I have four Winchester bullet moulds, all with wooden handles:

.44 W.C.F.; .38 W.C.F.; .38 S. & W. SPL; .38 S. & W.

 

The three tools with 1874 and 1882 patents also bear markings stating manufacture by Winchester, as do all four moulds. The .38 W.C.F. tool with only 1874 patens does not.

 

No boxes or other accessories, but the .38 S. & W. SPL tool was accompanied by an original sheet of instructions dated January, 1910.

If any of the above would be useful to your survey, I will be happy to provide pictures.

 

Jim

October 14, 2018
6:16 pm
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Chuck said
Here is a picture of the tools.  The 45-90 and the 44 WCF both have 1894 Patent dates.  The 45-75 is unmarked other than 45.75 WCF.

 

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The 45-90 Tool is the Model 1894 Tool. Which patent address does it have on the side of the frame? Have you ever disassembled it completely?

The 44w.c.f. Tool is the Model 1882 Tool (Collector Term) also known as the "Lever Tool" by the factory. And it should have the 1874 & 1882 patent dates, and not 1894. 

The 45-75 Tool is the Model 1875 Tool (Collector Term), and the patent address is on the top handle. Which was made when the handle was cast and not roll stamped like later tools, which is why it is hard to read, but it is undoubtedly there. I've got several tools like this, unless you know what your looking at it is very hard to make out the patent date on the top handle. The caliber markings were die stamped onto the side of the top handle. Your Tool appears to have the pivot pin in the top handle over the die chamber. Which is thought to have occurred late in production. I doubt it, but will ask because you never know, Does your Tool have a assembly number on it? Some numbers have been found on the inside of the handle near the hinge junction. Or on the inside flat portion of the cartridge extractor plate. I've found them on both bottom sides of the extractor plate and on the handle side which the extractor plate rests against next to the die chamber.

Like this.21-elevator.jpgImage Enlarger Or less common like this.113.jpgImage Enlarger 

Your bullet molds are of the 5th Type mold, the most common. All your tools are excellent condition, nice start to a collection.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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October 14, 2018
6:49 pm
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30Gov03 said
I have four Winchester reloading tools, all Model 1882:
.44 W.C.F. - bearing 1874 and 1882 patents; .38 W.C.F. - bearing 1874 and 1882 patents; .38 W.C.F. - bearing only 1874 patent; .38 S. & W. SPL - bearing 1874 and 1882 patents, original decapping pin.

In addition I have four Winchester bullet moulds, all with wooden handles:
.44 W.C.F.; .38 W.C.F.; .38 S. & W. SPL; .38 S. & W.
The three tools with 1874 and 1882 patents also bear markings stating manufacture by Winchester, as do all four moulds. The .38 W.C.F. tool with only 1874 patens does not.
No boxes or other accessories, but the .38 S. & W. SPL tool was accompanied by an original sheet of instructions dated January, 1910.
If any of the above would be useful to your survey, I will be happy to provide pictures.

Jim  

Do the 44wcf, 38wcf, & 38s&w spl all have the 3-Line address markings on the same side as the patent dates? Also, if on the same side, Are all the caliber and patent dates on the bottom handle? With the 3-Line address on the top handle?

The .38wcf with 1874 date only, is a early Tool likely produced in 1882 or before, and assuredly before 1883. Is the Patent date & Caliber marking on the top or bottom handle? Is the caliber marking above or below the patent date?

Is the 38S&W Special Tool marked "38S&W SPL" or "38S&W  SP 'L" ? How is the de-capping pin marked? 

Would love to see the Instruction Sheet that came with the 38S&W Spl Tool? 

Also would love too see pictures of all of them?

Your bullet molds are the 5th Type mold, most common as it was produced the longest.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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October 14, 2018
8:19 pm
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Maverick said

Chuck said
Here is a picture of the tools.  The 45-90 and the 44 WCF both have 1894 Patent dates.  The 45-75 is unmarked other than 45.75 WCF.

 

Loading-Tools.jpgImage Enlarger  

The 45-90 Tool is the Model 1894 Tool. Which patent address does it have on the side of the frame? Have you ever disassembled it completely?

The 44w.c.f. Tool is the Model 1882 Tool (Collector Term) also known as the "Lever Tool" by the factory. And it should have the 1874 & 1882 patent dates, and not 1894. 

The 45-75 Tool is the Model 1875 Tool (Collector Term), and the patent address is on the top handle. Which was made when the handle was cast and not roll stamped like later tools, which is why it is hard to read, but it is undoubtedly there. I've got several tools like this, unless you know what your looking at it is very hard to make out the patent date on the top handle. The caliber markings were die stamped onto the side of the top handle. Your Tool appears to have the pivot pin in the top handle over the die chamber. Which is thought to have occurred late in production. I doubt it, but will ask because you never know, Does your Tool have a assembly number on it? Some numbers have been found on the inside of the handle near the hinge junction. Or on the inside flat portion of the cartridge extractor plate. I've found them on both bottom sides of the extractor plate and on the handle side which the extractor plate rests against next to the die chamber.

Like this.21-elevator.jpgImage Enlarger Or less common like this.113.jpgImage Enlarger 

Your bullet molds are of the 5th Type mold, the most common. All your tools are excellent condition, nice start to a collection.

Sincerely,

Maverick  

The 45-90 tool states.

MANUFACTURED BY THE

WINCHESTER REP. ARMS CO.

NEW HAVEN. CT. U.S.A. MOD. 1894

PAT. FEBRUARY 13. 1894.

You are correct about the 44 W.C.F.  Pat. OCT. 20. 1874 and Nov. 7. 82.

The 45-75 Patent info and an assembly no. are nowhere to be found??  There is some rough casting inside the spoon part of the bottom handle?  The other spoon is all smooth.

What is this pivot pin used for?

October 14, 2018
9:48 pm
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The 45-75 Patent info and an assembly no. are nowhere to be found??  There is some rough casting inside the spoon part of the bottom handle?  The other spoon is all smooth.

What is this pivot pin used for?  

The Patent Date is on the Top Handle towards front by the hinge. Even is excellent condition Tools it is hard to make out. With some use it is warn away, and some tools the casting is very, very faint.TopPatentMark.jpgImage Enlarger

Early tool without pivot pin over die chamber.EarlyNoPin.jpgImage EnlargerThe cartridge seater over the die chamber is in a fixed position.TopEarly.jpgImage Enlarger

Later Tool with pivot pin, notice the top handle is different above the die chamber.EarlyWithPin.jpgImage Enlarger Top handle is cartridge seater is now allowed to pivot over the die chamber.TopHandleLatePivot.jpgImage Enlarger When using the tool having the cartridge seater being able to pivot allowed it to seat the shell better.

I have yet to find a late large 1875 tool with the pivot pin provision that contained an assembly number, so no surprise there. But its not impossible.

Sincerely,

Brady Henderson

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October 15, 2018
12:48 am
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Maverick, taking your questions in order:

 

Do the 44wcf, 38wcf, & 38s&w spl all have the 3-Line address markings on the same side as the patent dates? Also, if on the same side, Are all the caliber and patent dates on the bottom handle? With the 3-Line address on the top handle?

Yes. All three have the address and caliber and patents on the same side. Address on top handle, caliber and patents on bottom handle... caliber first, then patents.

 

The .38wcf with 1874 date only, is a early Tool likely produced in 1882 or before, and assuredly before 1883. Is the Patent date & Caliber marking on the top or bottom handle? Is the caliber marking above or below the patent date?

Had no idea the tool was possibly that old! Oddly, it is the one in the best condition, retaining the most of its blued finish. The caliber and patent are on the top handle, with the caliber below the patent.

 

Is the 38S&W Special Tool marked "38S&W SPL" or "38S&W SP 'L" ? How is the de-capping pin marked?

The .38 Special is marked "38S.&W.SPL", virtually no spacing between any of the characters. The decapping pin is marked "38 S&W SPL", with space between the "8" and "S", and between the "W" and "S".

 

Would love to see the Instruction Sheet that came with the 38S&W Spl Tool? Also would love too see pictures of all of them?

I'll dig the instruction sheet out and run it across the scanner, and will get some pictures of the tools and moulds. Might take me a day or two to get around to it, and for the weather to cooperate so I can get them out into good sunlight.

Your bullet molds are the 5th Type mold, most common as it was produced the longest.

That was my assumption, just plain old, run-of-the-mill moulds. I've always been impressed by them, though, because the bullets literally fall out when I open the handles, no tapping, no jiggling, no nothing! Sad that the same can't be said of virtually any of my much, much newer moulds from current manufacturers.

Jim

October 15, 2018
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Two loading tools and one mould.  Hope this is useful.

I assume the decaping pin if I had them also belled the mouth of the case.20181014_091612.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_091744.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_091833.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_091858.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_091936.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_092056.jpgImage Enlarger

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October 15, 2018
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Maverick said

The Patent Date is on the Top Handle towards front by the hinge. Even is excellent condition Tools it is hard to make out. With some use it is warn away, and some tools the casting is very, very faint.TopPatentMark.jpgImage Enlarger

Early tool without pivot pin over die chamber.EarlyNoPin.jpgImage EnlargerThe cartridge seater over the die chamber is in a fixed position.TopEarly.jpgImage Enlarger

Later Tool with pivot pin, notice the top handle is different above the die chamber.EarlyWithPin.jpgImage Enlarger Top handle is cartridge seater is now allowed to pivot over the die chamber.TopHandleLatePivot.jpgImage Enlarger When using the tool having the cartridge seater being able to pivot allowed it to seat the shell better.

I have yet to find a late large 1875 tool with the pivot pin provision that contained an assembly number, so no surprise there. But its not impossible.

Sincerely,

Brady Henderson  

The underside of my top handle is just like the later tool you show.  The pin you are talking about is on the side of the top handle?  What is the threaded pin/screw for?  This goes in through the top handle with an opening on the side of the bottom handle. Does a cartridge go into this?

October 15, 2018
5:39 pm
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Chuck said

The underside of my top handle is just like the later tool you show.  The pin you are talking about is on the side of the top handle?  What is the threaded pin/screw for?  This goes in through the top handle with an opening on the side of the bottom handle. Does a cartridge go into this?  

Thought so, as that is how it appeared from the photo, but hard to say for certain by the photo. Yes, here is a pic. Pin.jpgImage Enlarger It is just a pin, penned into place. 

Chuck said
Does a cartridge go into this?  

I',m not sure I understand your question. The cartridge shell case goes into the die chamber, to seat the bullet into the shell. Unless your talking about de-capping, then the shell goes onto the lower handle where the relief cut is so the berdan chisel located on the top handle can remove the primer.

Sincerely,

Maverick 

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October 15, 2018
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Oldgrayguns said
Two loading tools and one mould.  Hope this is useful.

I assume the decaping pin if I had them also belled the mouth of the case.20181014_091612.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_091744.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_091833.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_091858.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_091936.jpgImage Enlarger20181014_092056.jpgImage Enlarger

Dominic  

Your assumption is mostly correct. Only the early de-capping pins (pre-1882 Patent) would be straight & unable to bell out the shell. Both your 1882 Tools would of had the later type pin.

Your 44wcf 1882 Tool is somewhat of a earlier tool. Dates relatively between 1883 to 1888, because Winchester put the 3-line address of the backside of the Tool, and not on the same side as the caliber & patent address in that time period. Most assuredly after 1888, this practice ceased, at least this is what I've been able to narrow down thus far with my research. But I'm still working on it, and this is a prime example of my research. Just like the firearms, Winchester changed how they marked things through the years. 

Your mold is a 5th Type mold.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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October 15, 2018
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Maverick said

Thought so, as that is how it appeared from the photo, but hard to say for certain by the photo. Yes, here is a pic. Pin.jpgImage Enlarger It is just a pin, penned into place. 

Chuck said
Does a cartridge go into this?  

I',m not sure I understand your question. The cartridge shell case goes into the die chamber, to seat the bullet into the shell. Unless your talking about de-capping, then the shell goes onto the lower handle where the relief cut is so the berdan chisel located on the top handle can remove the primer.

Sincerely,

Maverick   

I guessed that the pin/screw/chisel was a de-capping pin but wasn't sure.  Thanks Brady.

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