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It may be "Almost a Ranch" but it is certainly TOTAL bullshit!!!
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April 25, 2017 - 1:33 am
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If that can be done, why not send the warning to all bidders.  I couldn’t figure out how to determine who each bidder is.

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April 25, 2017 - 1:47 am
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Wincacher said
If that can be done, why not send the warning to all bidders.  I couldn’t figure out how to determine who each bidder is.  

If you go into the bid history, you can view all of the bidders and click on each one’s feedback rating.  You can then click to view their items for sale, then go to their item and “ask the seller a question.”  This only works if bidders have items for sale–any without items for sale, you’re SOL.  I was only able to warn two of the bidders–none of the others had items for sale in order to get the “ask the seller a question” option.  I warned both that they were bidding on a fraudulent gun and included a link to this forum thread.

Don

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April 25, 2017 - 1:57 am
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Wincacher said
If that can be done, why not send the warning to all bidders.  I couldn’t figure out how to determine who each bidder is.  

Probably impossible.  In the early days of ebay (the model for GB), it was possible to communicate directly with each & every bidder, because their “true” handles were listed, and a few times I did exactly what you are suggesting; but ebay soon realized that communication between members, and especially, exposure of potential fraud, cut into their profits, and rendered this impossible.

Never forget:  an auctioneer represents (works for) the seller, not the buyer!

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April 25, 2017 - 1:59 am
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Wincacher said
I actually received a response, though it doesn’t say much:

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Lisa Thomas <[email protected]>

5:31 PM (1 hour ago)
   

 

Hi there,
Thank you for your comments.
I will correct the caliber listed later today.
I will contacted the owner about the gun having a number on receiver and being refinished.
He is the owner and writes the descriptions as I am not qualified.
I do the listings, shipping  and and complete the balance of the sale.
Thank you 
Lisa
Sent from my iPad
 
  

I see the seller has not bothered to edit their post regarding the “truth” about this rifle.  This seller is in the business of screwing people over by buying junk, refinishing, and peddling them off to unsuspecting buyers as originals for big profits.  All greed…

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April 25, 2017 - 2:03 am
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deerhunter said

If you go into the bid history, you can view all of the bidders and click on each one’s feedback rating.  You can then click to view their items for sale, then go to their item and “ask the seller a question.”  This only works if bidders have items for sale–any without items for sale, you’re SOL.  I was only able to warn two of the bidders–none of the others had items for sale in order to get the “ask the seller a question” option.  I warned both that they were bidding on a fraudulent gun and included a link to this forum thread.

Don  

I tried that but nothing happens.  I’m logged into GB and clicked on every single bidder and their rating but nothing happened.  All I could do was highlight their feedback rating????????

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April 25, 2017 - 2:14 am
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1873man said
…it takes a rare person to teach them a lesson in court.

Bob  

And one with plenty of dough! Cost of this kind of litigation (many thousands, unless you’re a lawyer yourself!) is not recoverable by winning the suit–successful plaintiff could recover whatever funds he’d lost to defendant, but no more, or very little.  So if defendant voluntarily offers to refund the sum in question…judge would probably dismiss the suit.

So unfortunately, best way to “teach them a lesson” is probably OUT of court!

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April 25, 2017 - 2:15 am
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Wincacher said

I tried that but nothing happens.  I’m logged into GB and clicked on every single bidder and their rating but nothing happened.  All I could do was highlight their feedback rating????????  

Here’s what I get when I click on the high builder’s feedback rating:

http://www.gunbroker.com/a/feedback/profile/51429

Then click on “Sellers items for sale.”  Then click on one of the items, then click “Ask seller a question.”  Kind of the “back-door” approach, but it gets the message thru.

Don

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April 25, 2017 - 2:22 am
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I still think BATFE is failing in their mission, they decline to do anything about a person who is obviously in the business of selling firearms without a license. I don’t think they actually fall for that line from “Lisa” about “just doing the listings”. I don’t know the element of the appropriate offense but I’d think “do the listings, shipping and complete the balance of the sale” should be enough for charges to be filed or at least merit a visit from a local BATFE agent. Something’s just not right when licensees have to do everything right and folks like this seem to make a game of skirting the laws we must abide by.

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April 25, 2017 - 4:33 am
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Wincacher said
I actually received a response, though it doesn’t say much:

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Lisa Thomas <[email protected]>

5:31 PM (1 hour ago)
   

 

Hi there,
Thank you for your comments.
I will correct the caliber listed later today.
I will contacted the owner about the gun having a number on receiver and being refinished.
He is the owner and writes the descriptions as I am not qualified.
I do the listings, shipping  and and complete the balance of the sale.
Thank you 
Lisa
Sent from my iPad
 

  

I could have a faulty memory, but I either received a response very similar to that or read it here a few years ago.

Maybe a “layered ” line of people to purposely avoid legal issues ?

Just thinkin’

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April 25, 2017 - 11:47 am
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Like the rest of you I can not figure out a way to effectively make this sort of blatant misrepresentation and sales end.  Regretfully, I am not going to take up a court case against the seller.  Gunbroker apparently is not interested in restricting the action.  I would implore all of my fellow collectors who are doing surveys of various guns to retain photos of all the rifles you are cataloguing and notes on where you saw the rifle.  I have done this for the Model 1892 and have 49,514 images saved and sorted by the serial number of each rifle.  This has proven to be very valuable both for the research being done and to document  when a rifle has been altered and is being resold.  Regretfully I did not save images for the Model 61 effort  I am also doing but I do have where each rifle was seen.  I have caught this same seller offering Model 61’s which have been upgraded by barrel changes and refinished in the past.  

Image collecting does take more time but it is the only recourse and proof of this sort of activity.

Michael 

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April 25, 2017 - 11:57 am
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There is a gun sales site in France http://www.naturabuy.fr/ which lists all the questions and the sellers answers in the listing for each item being sold.  That would be very helpful for the buyers if Gunbroker were to do that.  The best I could come up with is to post on their own “Ask The Expert” forum. 

https://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=693178

Michael

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April 25, 2017 - 12:50 pm
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They corrected the caliber in listing not title.

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April 25, 2017 - 1:24 pm
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Looks like the high bidder yesterday ($805) got the message but it has now gone to $1225, pushed up by some unsuspecting bidders.  The caliber was corrected but the main issue about the false description has been left unaltered, proving that this seller is involved in intentional deception.

Perhaps we should start a list of “boycotted” sellers, like this guy and the one selling his “dad’s collection”.

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April 25, 2017 - 1:43 pm
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The high bidder today, 4/25/17 is the same high bidder of yesterday…38WCF. He has been notified of the truth and given links to this forum from several different members here. Remember on GB, when you bid a certain amount you are locked in at that amount and can’t with draw your bid. If you win, the only thing you can do is refuse to pay for it and take the hit. Or it could be that there’s some shilling going on here…one never knows.

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April 25, 2017 - 1:57 pm
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Good point, Eagle.  On eBay one can see the bid history plus automatic bids.  In this case, it appears that the high bidder placed his bid most recently but maybe the bid history on GB doesn’t reflect the actual time, though it does seem to have been placed nearly 2 hours after the previous high bidder.  He has 685 feedbacks so he must be a dealer.  Maybe there is, indeed, some shilling going on here.  Would make sense, considering the ethics of the seller.

The bid history also indicates that this is his only bid so far.

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April 25, 2017 - 2:20 pm
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I got an e-mailed thank-you from one of the bidders I informed and sent a link to yesterday.  Haven’t gotten any response from the current high bidder though.  Maybe it is a shiller…wouldn’t be surprised.

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April 25, 2017 - 6:18 pm
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Wincacher said
He has 685 feedbacks so he must be a dealer.  Maybe there is, indeed, some shilling going on here.  Would make sense, considering the ethics of the seller.
 
   

There’s a name for it: “one hand washes the other.” 

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April 25, 2017 - 6:28 pm
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twobit said
Like the rest of you I can not figure out a way to effectively make this sort of blatant misrepresentation and sales end.  Regretfully, I am not going to take up a court case against the seller.  Gunbroker apparently is not interested in restricting the action.  I would implore all of my fellow collectors who are doing surveys of various guns to retain photos of all the rifles you are cataloguing and notes on where you saw the rifle.  I have done this for the Model 1892 and have 49,514 images saved and sorted by the serial number of each rifle.  This has proven to be very valuable both for the research being done and to document  when a rifle has been altered and is being resold.  Regretfully I did not save images for the Model 61 effort  I am also doing but I do have where each rifle was seen.  I have caught this same seller offering Model 61’s which have been upgraded by barrel changes and refinished in the past.  

Image collecting does take more time but it is the only recourse and proof of this sort of activity.

Michael   

Adding the date viewed along with the link might be a good idea as well.

James

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April 25, 2017 - 7:10 pm
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If almostaranch is an unsuspecting gal just listing collections, how come they buy a lot of gun parts..??? Look at the feedbacks. Hmmmm

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April 25, 2017 - 7:29 pm
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Along the same lines as what is going on in this auction, is another auction from a well known seller who appears to be very professional and knows his stuff…I thought. Take a look at this auction, read the description where it says ” The wood to metal fit is tight and proud.” Then take a look at pictures 13, 27, 34, 64, 65, 70, 74, 75, 76, & 85 and tell me if you think the wood is “tight and proud”. I would say that a majority of folks that buy on GB are inexperienced and/or simply don’t care nor do they want to learn. I sent a note to the seller in this auction when it came up. No changes, no response…… 

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/637022822

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