Faked/Altered Model 61 Rifle Listing|Winchester .22 Rim Fire|Forum|Winchester Collector

rogertherelic said
What is your opinion of Rock Island Auction #649 held this week end?  I had them send a picture of the “WRF” stamp on the front of the receiver below the magazine tube.  It is double stamped and crooked.  The serial number for the rifle is 179525.  RDB  

Good morning Roger,

At first glance the rifle looks real nice.  BUT, you have to ask yourself for a rifle described as “Extremely fine. The rifle retains 98% plus showing some light cycling marks.”  why then was the wood in need of being refinished as is mentioned in the catalogue???   

And here is something I find VERY interesting in my data.  Between SN 152404 and 187218 (34,814 rifles) I have cataloged 397 specimens.  The production is dominated by standard round barrel plane Jane rifles.  But there are 7 Rifles scattered about that are RB 22 WRF chambered.  And guess what, 4 of those were sold out of RIA, 2 out of Little Johns, and 1 at Julia’s!!!!!!   WHY is it that only the large auction houses have access to these “rare” rifles????  My personal feeling is that I would be suspect of all of them.   

But wait!!!  It gets even more crazy!  Within this same interval there are 14 rifles chambered in 22 LR Shot Only and 4 rifles chambered 22 RB Short only.  Of the 14 LR guns there were 6 sold out of RIA, 2 from Julia, and 2 from Steve Barnett.  Of the 4 Short Only rifles 1 from Julia, 1 from Little Johns, 1 from Steve Barnett, and one at Montrose auction.   And I just found another fake offered by Steve Barnett.  SN 128172.  Started as a rough standard rifle and faked as “Shot Only” w/ box for $6500.  June 6, 2018

Call me highly skeptical, but I find it extremely hard to believe that all these guns are out of “premier collections” and thus only offered via large auction houses.  Especially if/when they are not portrayed that way in catalogues.  So if you look at the totals of the WRF, LR Only, and RB Short Only guns in this range there are a total of 21 desirable single chamber rifles that just also happen to be in really nice condition because the original owners just happen to never use them (my sarcasm) and 10 (almost half) were sold out of RIA, 3 sold out of Little Johns, 3 sold out of Julia’s and 3 from Steve Barnett.   So that is 19 out of 21 sold out of very specific and consistent sources.  

Right now I am feeling REAL GOOD that I never bought a high condition Model 61 rifle from these sources.  And for my fellow survey takers I learned this.  If you keep track of enough information you never know what you might be able to figure out.

i hope all this helps guys.

Michael

Deluxe 76 said
Hello Michael,

The 61 is being sold at Bauer Auction Service. It’s advertised as OB LR barrel. I know Hank Bauer personally and will inform him of this fake. Hank has four firearms auctions a year. He usually has nine hundred plus guns and of that maybe ten to fifteen high quality winchesters available. Most of his firearms are run of the mill weapons. I do know of one bidder there who goes to RIA regularly. I’m going to find out if it’s his gun up for auction.

I have over twenty model 61s of every variety and always looking for more to add to my collection. Many of these I bought from a friend who had serial number 1 which I thought was cool.

Once again, thanks for your efforts. Gerald  

Thanks much for the info Gerald.   I found the auction and have updated my spreadsheet and added images to my files.  Do I have data on all of your rifles in my survey so far?

Michael

Deluxe 76 said

No, but I will get the info to you.

Gerald  

Thanks Gerald.   That would be great!!  https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-survey-discussion/model-61-research-survey-1/

Michael

New rifle added to list.  See this thread:  https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-22-rim-fire/