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Win 94 rusted mag tube
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Posts: 79
October 10, 2022 - 11:37 am

1sp_QuotePost

 

Hello everybody 

I finally got to disassemble my 94 and the rusted mag tube is stuck to the forearm. Any suggestion on how to remove it properly.

Attached below is avedio.

Thanks

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Posts: 490
October 10, 2022 - 1:14 pm

2sp_QuotePost

Linseed oil or something similar that won’t hurt the wood in channel, let it soak for a while and give it a try. Might even want to gently ‘shock’ the mag tube with a rubber mallet after soaking.

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Wisconsin
Posts: 4267
October 10, 2022 - 1:27 pm

3sp_QuotePost

You didn’t say what era 94 you have but there was guns made with wood that had salt used in the process and they rusted the metal anywhere they touched. I forget the details. If thats the case you don’t want to reuse the wood. Splitting the forearm would be the best way to remove it since you would want new wood.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

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Posts: 79
October 10, 2022 - 2:20 pm

4sp_QuotePost

Hi Bob:

It’s Legendry Lawmen 1977.

And I don’t want to damage the wood.

Thanks 

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Posts: 4523
October 10, 2022 - 4:51 pm

5sp_QuotePost

I believe the salted wood was in the late 1960’s through the early 1980’s era.  The problem was caused by the curing process. After removing the tube seal the wood.

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Posts: 79
October 10, 2022 - 7:13 pm

6sp_QuotePost

Thanks Chuck:

The problem is how to remove the tube safely.

Sam

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Posts: 1696
October 10, 2022 - 9:24 pm

7sp_QuotePost

 Browning had a problem with salt water logs they used on fancy guns. Rust would come out between the wood and metal, I think it was when they had guns built in Japan. Any Browning collector could shed some light on the problem. T/R

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Posts: 4523
October 10, 2022 - 10:31 pm

8sp_QuotePost

TR said
 Browning had a problem with salt water logs they used on fancy guns. Rust would come out between the wood and metal, I think it was when they had guns built in Japan. Any Browning collector could shed some light on the problem. T/R

  

Browning was not the only company that used this wood.

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Posts: 4523
October 10, 2022 - 10:33 pm

9sp_QuotePost

Sam56 said
Thanks Chuck:

The problem is how to remove the tube safely.

Sam

  

Sam, I don’t know.  I would soak it like others have said and gradually try to loosen it.

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Wisconsin
Posts: 4267
October 11, 2022 - 1:12 am

10sp_QuotePost

Sam,

Rust on the tube in the wood is going to have a very good grip. The good penetrants that will break down the rust could also hurt finish. So you could try them or use a oil. If I was trying to break it loose there would be two other things to try.

one would be trying to twist the the tube by holding the tube and twisting on the forearm by hand. With old mag tubes they were made by rolling a flat sheet of steel into a tube and soldiering the seam. The problem those old tubes if you twist too much you break the soldier joint. You would clamp the tube in a padded vise you first make a dowel of hard wood or metal so it just slides inside the tube. if you don’t have the plug inside when you clamp on it will crush the tube or slip. Now if the newer guns have seamless tubes you safer  but you still need a plug inside.

The second thing I would try is to tap the tube and hope it brakes loose. To do that you would drill a hole the diameter of the tube through a board and pad the around the hole with rubber or leather as to not damage the end grains. You would also need to pad the end of the tube with wood when tap it.

You can try any combination of them and any one of the methods could damage or break something. You will have to decide how much force to use or if its worth trying.  its just like removing a tight bolt. How much can you put on it before you twist it off. One additional bit of advise I would give is if you get it loose do not side the wood off forward over the the front part of the tube because the rust that is stuck to the inside of the forearm will scratch the bluing big time. The tube has to come off out the front of the forearm.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

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Posts: 79
October 11, 2022 - 10:44 am

11sp_QuotePost

Hi Bob :

Thank you for the detailed information you provided.

Can I use some kind of oil in the inside of the forearm so that it will loosen the bondage btwn the tube and the wood. And would it affect the wood.?

Sam

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Wisconsin
Posts: 4267
October 11, 2022 - 1:10 pm

12sp_QuotePost

Anything you use will have affect on the wood in some form. Linseed oil would have the least affect but its not that thin out of the can and will not seep down the tube. It would have to be thinned and what you use to thin it may have more affect on the finish or wood. linseed oil by it nature gets hard when it dries and that will have the opposite affect your trying to have. Penetrating oil is basically a solvent mixed with a oil and some additives to dissolve rust if its a good product.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

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Posts: 79
October 15, 2022 - 7:20 pm

13sp_QuotePost

1873man said
Anything you use will have affect on the wood in some form. Linseed oil would have the least affect but its not that thin out of the can and will not seep down the tube. It would have to be thinned and what you use to thin it may have more affect on the finish or wood. linseed oil by it nature gets hard when it dries and that will have the opposite affect your trying to have. Penetrating oil is basically a solvent mixed with a oil and some additives to dissolve rust if its a good product.

Bob

  

Hi Bob

I am opting to do as you suggested and will make the jig. 

I ‘ll keep you posted on the progress.

Thanks

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Posts: 79
October 16, 2022 - 6:07 am

14sp_QuotePost

  Hi

I tried the tapping of the mag tube and the twisting for an hour, still won’t budge.

What if I use oil, what kind of damage to the wood will it cause? 

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Wisconsin
Posts: 4267
October 16, 2022 - 2:54 pm

15sp_QuotePost

Any oil will soak into the wood and will cause the wood to get darker. When you see old guns that have been set butt down for many years you will see the wood darker next to the receiver if they were over oiled. Here is a picture of oil wicking from the receiver. Rust on the tube expands and makes the joint tighter. You no longer have a smooth tube in the wood. Its like you knurled the tube and pressed it into the wood. Even a good penetrating oil might not get down the sides of the tube. As last resort you could cut a slot down the forearm on the inside where its thin and would not be seen when reassembled. This is just like you removing a frozen nut by cracking it. The only issue is the wood has to spread open to make room for the rust which could split the forearm. And again once you make a slot then you can try all of methods I suggested plus you can put a penetrant in the slot were it can get to where you need it. I would use a Dremel to cut the slot.

Bob

swiss5.JPGImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Posts: 4523
October 17, 2022 - 2:27 am

16sp_QuotePost

If you are applying oil on the under side of the forearm who cares what it looks like.  The only time it will be seen is if someone takes it apart and it will posibly be a little darker.

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Posts: 79
October 17, 2022 - 6:10 am

17sp_QuotePost

Hi Chuck

I am not worried about the discolouring of the wood, rather I am worried that the wood would swell then crack.

Thanks

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Posts: 79
October 17, 2022 - 8:36 am

18sp_QuotePost

1873man said
Any oil will soak into the wood and will cause the wood to get darker. When you see old guns that have been set butt down for many years you will see the wood darker next to the receiver if they were over oiled. Here is a picture of oil wicking from the receiver. Rust on the tube expands and makes the joint tighter. You no longer have a smooth tube in the wood. Its like you knurled the tube and pressed it into the wood. Even a good penetrating oil might not get down the sides of the tube. As last resort you could cut a slot down the forearm on the inside where its thin and would not be seen when reassembled. This is just like you removing a frozen nut by cracking it. The only issue is the wood has to spread open to make room for the rust which could split the forearm. And again once you make a slot then you can try all of methods I suggested plus you can put a penetrant in the slot were it can get to where you need it. I would use a Dremel to cut the slot.

Bob

swiss5.JPGImage Enlarger

  

Hi Bob

Does the cutting of the forearm affects the function of the rifle. And will it reassemble properly?

Thanks 

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Posts: 79
October 17, 2022 - 9:36 am

19sp_QuotePost

Hi Bob

I am opting for the cutting of the forearm. I am attaching some close up shots of the forearm. 

Thanks 20221017_092018.jpgImage Enlarger20221017_092001.jpgImage Enlarger20221017_091952.jpgImage Enlarger20221017_091923.jpgImage Enlarger

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Posts: 79
October 17, 2022 - 9:41 am

20sp_QuotePost

I am attaching an old photo of the forearm before disassembly. Where you can see. How the rust forced the forearm to dislodge about quarter of an inch from the receiver.

20211219_200529.jpgImage Enlarger

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