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Widow peak hammers
September 1, 2019
5:50 pm
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Hey all. I'm trying to further educate my limited knowledge of old Winchester lever guns.

What time period did they use the (what I call it) the widow's peak hammers?

thanks

September 1, 2019
6:04 pm
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For the Model 1894, the "widow's peak" hammer was used from the beginning of production through early 1903. Through the information in my research survey, the transition from the Type-1 (widow's peak) to the Type-2 hammer took place in March/April 1903. I suspect the same is true for the Model 1892.

Bert

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September 1, 2019
6:33 pm
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Thanks Bert. I have an 1886 with one also. I assume it follows the same time period.

 

Tim

September 1, 2019
9:58 pm
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Bert H. said
For the Model 1894, the "widow's peak" hammer was used from the beginning of production through early 1903. Through the information in my research survey, the transition from the Type-1 (widow's peak) to the Type-2 hammer took place in March/April 1903. I suspect the same is true for the Model 1892.
Bert  

What does the widows peak hammer look like?

September 1, 2019
11:58 pm
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Chuck said

What does the widows peak hammer look like?  

Like this...

Type-1-Widows-Peak-hammer-22905.jpgImage EnlargerType-1-Widows-Peak-hammer-39514.jpgImage Enlarger

Pictures are courtesy of the Rob Kassab collection.

Bert

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September 2, 2019
3:20 pm
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Well, my hammers may look like that but the rest of the rifles don't.Laugh

September 2, 2019
5:22 pm
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Bert H. said

Like this...

Type-1-Widows-Peak-hammer-22905.jpgImage EnlargerType-1-Widows-Peak-hammer-39514.jpgImage Enlarger

Pictures are courtesy of the Rob Kassab collection.

Bert  

Thanks Bert.  I guess I have never seen one like this before.  Pirkle does not show this variation of this pattern.

September 2, 2019
5:35 pm
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I'm also reminded of the Cloverleaf rear sight when I see tis style hammer checking.

James

September 2, 2019
5:44 pm
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Chuck,

To the best of my knowledge, all of the early Winchester models (rifles & carbines) have the widow's peak style hammer.  The Type-2 hammer has the same style checking (or knurling), but without the pointed peak.  The Type-2 hammer was used from 1903 through early 1946, when it was replaced by the Type-3 Serrated hammer.

Bert

Type-2-Checkered-Hammer.jpgImage EnlargerType-2-Checkered-Hammer-1-.jpgImage Enlarger

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September 2, 2019
6:18 pm
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jwm94 said
I'm also reminded of the Cloverleaf rear sight when I see tis style hammer checking.

James  

I think it should be called the "Ten Commandments" style!

September 2, 2019
7:40 pm
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clarence said

I think it should be called the "Ten Commandments" style!  

LaughLaughLaugh

September 2, 2019
11:10 pm
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Thanks guys for the info. I'll have more questions, I'm sure.

 

Tim

September 2, 2019
11:20 pm
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OK. Thought about this. Does the small curve on the crescent butt plate toe date to the same period?

 

Tim

September 2, 2019
11:58 pm
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Shortgrub said
OK. Thought about this. Does the small curve on the crescent butt plate toe date to the same period?

Tim  

No, it does not.  The down turned toe on the crescent butt plates was discontinued in the mid to late 1880s.

Bert

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September 3, 2019
12:02 am
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Bert H. said
Chuck,

To the best of my knowledge, all of the early Winchester models (rifles & carbines) have the widow's peak style hammer.  The Type-2 hammer has the same style checking (or knurling), but without the pointed peak.  The Type-2 hammer was used from 1903 through early 1946, when it was replaced by the Type-3 Serrated hammer.

Bert

Type-2-Checkered-Hammer.jpgImage EnlargerType-2-Checkered-Hammer-1-.jpgImage Enlarger  

Was this hammer knurling pattern stamped, machine cut or other??   

Chris

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September 3, 2019
12:10 am
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1892takedown said

Was this hammer knurling pattern stamped, machine cut or other??   

Chris  

I do not know what method was used to accomplish it.  Hopefully one of our forum members can offer the answer.

Bert

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September 3, 2019
1:43 am
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According to one or two Schwing references they were hand checked.

James

September 3, 2019
3:09 am
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jwm94 said
According to one or two Schwing references they were hand checked.

James  

How did he know?  I mean, upon what evidence?  Factory records, testimony of a former employee, microscopic examination...

September 3, 2019
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clarence said

How did he know?  I mean, upon what evidence?  Factory records, testimony of a former employee, microscopic examination...  

Good Morning Clarence,

Good questions! And I am not certain as to the exact source of his information. However, on page 63 of his book on the Model 1890, he states that two different craftsman used different tools to perform the work, and on page 64 he's a bit more specific in that, "The hammers were checkered by hand by different craftsman, each using his own cutting tool." This quote appears in a caption below the picture that shows a display of ten different hammer styles used on the Model 1890. The display is attributed to the Donald Tusher Collection.

James

September 3, 2019
2:55 pm
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jwm94 said

...he states that two different craftsman used different tools to perform the work, and on page 64 he's a bit more specific in that, "The hammers were checkered by hand by different craftsman, each using his own cutting tool."

Possible of course, but it just seems surprising that such an efficient, high-volume, company as Winchester had not developed a more cost-effective method of doing the job, such as stamping.  But the above statement is merely that, not factual evidence, such as a company record of payments to men employed to checker hammers, or a report from someone who had seen the work being done.  This checkering does not look to me as sharply cut as hand-cut checkering would be, and think, especially, of the difficulty of executing (without run-overs!) the "Ten Commandments" pattern.

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