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wolfbait said
wolfbait said
Now this has got me scratching my head. A person listening to opinions/facts, in hopes of getting accurate information to evaluate a rifle, could easily be lead astray.I hope your joking. As its fairly obvious the Gunbroker 1of1000 is a FAKE! Its truly a shame someone took a nice $10 engraved gun and ruined it. Just because its a 30 year old fake doesn’t make it any better either.
Sincerely,
Maverick
Nope, not joking. I was referring to the misinformation given, which 1873man corrected, that said it had to be a fake because it did not have a set trigger or because it was 3rd model. Misinformation will cause people to incorrectly evaluate a gun. In the other thread referenced it was said this gun was sold 2003 by RIA. I wish someone could find that catalog listing. That may be illuminating.
If your going to spend 5 – 6 figures on a firearm, I suggest you make up your own mind and do your own research and form your own opinions/facts on it. Even known “Experts” are wrong, case in point R.L. Wilson’s book on 1 of 1000s has at least two confirmed FAKES and possibly (highly likely) more in it than that. He was considered a “Expert” for 50 some odd years.
Also will add that typical classic Winchester, when you think you have everything pigeon holed into a nice simple box, it comes flying out of the box like a bat outta hell. There is always an exception to the rule.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
R Larry Wilson was no “expert”. He provided the opinion YOU wanted. The deeper you dig in your pockets, the better “opinion” he provided.
R Larry Wilson’s books could provide excellent tinder for a fire. A stack of them might prove useful to hold a door open. Other than that, I cannot come up with a purpose they might serve.
mrcvs said
R Larry Wilson’s books could provide excellent tinder for a fire. A stack of them might prove useful to hold a door open. Other than that, I cannot come up with a purpose they might serve.
They have pretty pictures.
wolfbait said
They have pretty pictures.
Coffee table books! Junk to bring out while having afternoon tea…
In other words, rubbish!
How about scholarly works that enhance one’s knowledge base? Not a collection of photographs that anyone with a good camera, a basic knowledge of firearms, a few connections to folks with museum quality firearms, and the interest of few folks willing to pay whatever it takes to have their firearm featured in a book, and a caption designed to reflect what they want it to say, even if it is nothing more than fiction and lies.
Seems to me, everyone with an interest here should rear, or re-read, this thread:
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/1-of-1000-is-it-for-real-or-not/
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Wincacher said
None of the genuine examples have engraving on the top of the receiver.
Here is one with engraving on the top of the receiver. https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/70/2014/1-of-1000-winchester-1873-rifle-44-wcf-rare-1-of-3
There is even one that letters 1 of 1000 and is not engraved so I’m assuming its not marked 1 of 1000. It comes down to if it letters and if it doesn’t then it will always have a stigma about it.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
That Rock Island reference group of pictures has a record of sales, including order numbers. I see several order numbers repeated with 4 to 6 1 of 1000 rifles on them. What’s up with that ?
Bill
After carefully reading the write-up for the RIA rifle I believe I’ve come up with another incongruity: supposedly there were only 2 rifles made with a combination of gold and nickle plating. 1 of them was also being auctioned by RIA and the other’s whereabouts are unknown but the serial number is 37981. That gun was made in 1879 as was the other, known gold/nickle plated model that RIA was auctioning off.
In the Dad’s GB listing there are 90 photos but none of them show the serial number, nor does the seller list it in the text of his write-up. He does state that the gun was made in 1884 as does the letter which doesn’t show the serial number. Seems like a deliberate effort to hide the serial number.
At any rate, if there are only 2 such rifles with nickle/gold plating and both were made in 1879, and Dad is admitting his specimen is from 1884, it couldn’t be a 1 of 1000.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
The number is shown in the provenance letter, 143300. Another person stated that this rifle was also in a RIA auction December, 2003. That auction listing would sure be interesting to see, and would answer a lot of questions.
wolfbait said
Here is one with engraving on the top of the receiver. https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/70/2014/1-of-1000-winchester-1873-rifle-44-wcf-rare-1-of-3
Yeah I’m not sure where Wincacher got the engraving on the receiver thing. And I know 1873man is generalizing with the inlay bands on the barrel as well.
Ed Lewis’s book is a good reference on the topic and a must read. It’s pretty telltale about some “Tom Foolery” when you read it and Wilson’s book back to back.
Sincerely,
Maverick
P.S. Maybe one of these days the Winchester community will have its own “ELMYR de HORY”!!!
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
This topic has brought up mixed feelings for me. On one hand, the above information and debate highlights the challenges that collecting involves. Risk can enhance a challenge. While not as heart-pounding as parachute diving, a poor choice in a collector item can result in a heavy financial loss as well as a humiliating experience. Personally, I’m not an adrenalin junkie so I lean toward the safer route of honest, plain-Jane Winchesters where big money isn’t involved. I don’t worry about whether case color is original or not – when it’s mostly all worn off (from honest use). Some of my favorite pieces are honest-use pieces. My point is, there is a path that avoids a lot of B.S., debates, disagreements and arguments.
From another angle, it can be darn amusing how this stuff gets spun and played. I recall many years ago, a seller was offering a 1 of 1000 Winchester in a model that Winchester never made a 1 of 1000 (I think it was a M86). The seller’s case was partially based on the common adage, “never say never when it comes to Winchester” (a fairly widely endorsed concept) as well as the museum letter he had. The letter stated the factory ledger was blank for this serial number. Well, there’s proof right there – the seller claimed – clearly Winchester pulled the rifle off the line to do something very special to it. 
Wincacher said
It was listed in June in GB, http://www.gunbroker.com/item/651823330, ended 6/14/17 with no bids. Listed for $97,997 that time.
Look at it now, it is all the way down to just a paltry $27,997… what a bargain basement price !!!
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/763535807
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Look at it now, it is all the way down to just a paltry $27,997… what a bargain basement price !!!
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/763535807
Bert
Yes, he has adjusted his price down. However he has not adjusted his claims of originality and authenticity down. He may yet sell it. Many buyer’s don’t perform adequate research. Someone might happen on to this one, recall they’ve seen other 1 of 1000’s sell well into the six figures and hastily click the buy-it-now button. And then (at least briefly) they might bask in the satisfaction and elation of beating all others to the buy-it-now button.
Steve,
If someone hastily clicks the “Buy It Now” button without doing their homework, they deserve what happens next. I sincerely doubt that any ordinary collector out there is willing to make a $28K gamble, and the deep pocket collectors undoubtedly already know the story on that rifle.
Of interest (and personal delight), SDOG’s sales have slowed significantly in recent months. In the year 2017, he sold (36) guns on Gunbroker. Thus far in 2018 (which is now nearly 30% gone), his sales have slowed to a mere (3) guns. I suspect that the word (truth) about him is spreading at an exponential rate.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Steve,If someone hastily clicks the “Buy It Now” button without doing their homework, they deserve what happens next. I sincerely doubt that any ordinary collector out there is willing to make a $28K gamble, and the deep pocket collectors undoubtedly already know the story on that rifle.
Of interest (and personal delight), SDOG’s sales have slowed significantly in recent months. In the year 2017, he sold (36) guns on Gunbroker. Thus far in 2018 (which is now nearly 30% gone), his sales have slowed to a mere (3) guns. I suspect that the word (truth) about him is spreading at an exponential rate.
Bert
Bert – I agree with your comments, and of course, I’m sure that’s the reason it hasn’t sold.
Let me add, I would be intensely curious to see the outcome were the seller to start the auction at a penny with no reserve.
Bert H. said
Steve,If someone hastily clicks the “Buy It Now” button without doing their homework, they deserve what happens next. I sincerely doubt that any ordinary collector out there is willing to make a $28K gamble, and the deep pocket collectors undoubtedly already know the story on that rifle.
Of interest (and personal delight), SDOG’s sales have slowed significantly in recent months. In the year 2017, he sold (36) guns on Gunbroker. Thus far in 2018 (which is now nearly 30% gone), his sales have slowed to a mere (3) guns. I suspect that the word (truth) about him is spreading at an exponential rate.
Bert
No more guns with the “original” (fake) box/paperwork for sale from this seller either…Looks like SDOG is focusing on the “deluxe” guns now.
SDOG haven’t slowed. He offers the guns he is going to list to repeat customers a couple days before the listing. In the past few months he has sold over twenty guns this way. Within 15 minutes of email the gun is sold. Unbelievable
Gerald
Deluxe 76 said
SDOG haven’t slowed. He offers the guns he is going to list to repeat customers a couple days before the listing. In the past few months he has sold over twenty guns this way. Within 15 minutes of email the gun is sold. UnbelievableGerald
How do you get this “inside” info?
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