Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Re-case coloring for an early 1886
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2338
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
41
December 31, 2017 - 6:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Looking at President Roosevelt’s rifle, I can’t imagine what that rifle is worth. Got to be the most expensive Winchester ever sold if it came on the market. That is the most beautiful Winchester I have ever seen. I also am one that would never refinish a piece of American history.   Big Larry

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4244
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
42
December 31, 2017 - 6:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I agree Big Larry.  And while I do appreciate high conditioned (original) rifles, I can also appreciate very low finish rifles.  A bonus with low finish pieces as they can usually be counted on to have a much higher percentage of history 🙂

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 482
Member Since:
March 21, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
43
January 3, 2018 - 3:36 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said
I agree Big Larry.  And while I do appreciate high conditioned (original) rifles, I can also appreciate very low finish rifles.  A bonus with low finish pieces as they can usually be counted on to have a much higher percentage of history 🙂  

Yep, an interesting story/history especially when verifiable really peaks my interest!

IMG_0805-Copy-Copy-Copy.JPG

Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1577
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
44
January 10, 2018 - 4:41 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Big Larry said
Looking at President Roosevelt’s rifle, I can’t imagine what that rifle is worth. Got to be the most expensive Winchester ever sold if it came on the market. That is the most beautiful Winchester I have ever seen. I also am one that would never refinish a piece of American history.   Big Larry  

I do not know if it is true or not but a while back Cowan’s Auctions sent around a flyer showing a Model 1873 that was factory engraved & gold inlaid for the 1876 Centennial Exposition. Sold privately for $1,050,000. 

I don’t know if old Teddy’s gun would reach that mark, but would imagine it would be on up there. As far as I’ve heard that is the most paid for a single Winchester ever, but I could be wrong.

I wish a hand those kinds of peanuts to be tossing around.

Sincerely,

Maverick

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4244
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
45
January 28, 2018 - 2:17 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

What do you guys think of the color job on this one?  Someone must like it as I see it has sold.  It doesn’t look too bad to me.

http://merzantiques.com/photo/w2284-beautiful-winchester-model-1886-src

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5015
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
46
January 28, 2018 - 8:03 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I like it but the colors don’t seem to flow like original guns or some of the other restorations. I realize that every CC result is a bit different. I think this sale illustrates the point that restored guns may become a more accepted (and more highly valued) segment of the collector market. Some collectors will never accept them but it may cut down on the number of restorations fraudulently sold as original guns if a quality restoration can command a “fair” price on it’s own merits. JMHO, of course, because quite frankly I’m generally on the sidelines watching both the “high condition” and restored market segments as I don’t wish to pay the price or take the risks of either.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
New Mexico
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 1167
Member Since:
December 1, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
47
January 28, 2018 - 8:21 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
I like it but the colors don’t seem to flow like original guns or some of the other restorations. I realize that every CC result is a bit different. I think this sale illustrates the point that restored guns may become a more accepted (and more highly valued) segment of the collector market. Some collectors will never accept them but it may cut down on the number of restorations fraudulently sold as original guns if a quality restoration can command a “fair” price on it’s own merits. JMHO, of course, because quite frankly I’m generally on the sidelines watching both the “high condition” and restored market segments as I don’t wish to pay the price or take the risks of either.  

So, how many years down the line you you think this piece will get promoted from “professionally restored” to “rare original condition”?

I’ll agree with you about boycotting the “high condition” market because I’ll never know enough to be able to discern between a genuinely untouched antique and one that was “professionally restored” 50 years ago.

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1722
Member Since:
June 4, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
48
January 28, 2018 - 9:33 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Wincacher said

So, how many years down the line you you think this piece will get promoted from “professionally restored” to “rare original condition”?

I’ll agree with you about boycotting the “high condition” market because I’ll never know enough to be able to discern between a genuinely untouched antique and one that was “professionally restored” 50 years ago.  

 You raise a good point, “restored 50 years ago”. I have no problem spotting a recent recase, but a British recase 70 years ago is the same as Winchester.The Briitish shotgun people used the same procedure as Winchester, add some usage, I can’t tell. People were sending guns or parts of gun’s to England for refinish, the country had a abundance of skilled craftsman refreshing expensive shotguns. The blue was slightly darker, but the case was color perfect, no rounded edges, no light markings, no pits or odd buffing marks. During this time period these skilled craftsman worked on the most expensive guns in the world. Not all will have British proofs, only complete guns sold their, I think? I fell victim to this 20 years ago, a very nice Deluxe 86 in 50/110. The quality of recent refinishes is not to this level because of cost and can be seen easily with a Larry light and a jewelers hood. T/R                                              

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 482
Member Since:
March 21, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
49
January 28, 2018 - 9:42 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Of course one can hardly (if ever) tell with 100% accuracy whether an old Winchester is an original extreme high condition or a good professional restoration, I believe by authenticating original documentation, components, wood condition, bluing, CCH etc. one can reasonably access with pretty good accuracy that a Winchester hasn’t been restored at least to a point where risk of such is very low. 

IMG_0805-Copy-Copy-Copy.JPG

Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5015
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
50
January 28, 2018 - 10:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Wincacher said 

So, how many years down the line you you think this piece will get promoted from “professionally restored” to “rare original condition”?

I’ll agree with you about boycotting the “high condition” market because I’ll never know enough to be able to discern between a genuinely untouched antique and one that was “professionally restored” 50 years ago.  

I have little doubt we’re seeing it now on other guns, no guarantee it won’t happen to this piece. Best example I can think of is when an estate sells a collection and the executor (and possibly the buyer) knows little or nothing about the guns. Or the gun changes hands a few times between casual collectors who don’t know or care if it’s restored or original. Or a dealer suspects it may be a restored gun but doesn’t know and he represents it in an ambiguous manner. Caveat emptor; a very old concept as valid now as it ever was.

I don’t like some aspects of this possible trend but I think it’s important to watch and try to understand as it will continue and we will have to deal with it whether we like it or not. I like that a respected seller is able to accurately represent an item and receive a good price. I don’t like that an original gun was likely destroyed (at least in the eyes of a traditional collector) but it’s not my gun.

Quite honestly I’m beginning to wonder if some of the better quality restorations represent an investment opportunity as they are often sold for the approximate cost of the restoration.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online: deerhunter, Gary Ryan, Range Ranger
Guest(s) 113
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6355
TXGunNut: 5015
Chuck: 4596
1873man: 4317
steve004: 4244
Big Larry: 2338
twobit: 2293
mrcvs: 1723
TR: 1722
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12737
Posts: 110938

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1758
Members: 8842
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation