I agree Big Larry.  And while I do appreciate high conditioned (original) rifles, I can also appreciate very low finish rifles.  A bonus with low finish pieces as they can usually be counted on to have a much higher percentage of history 🙂

Big Larry said
Looking at President Roosevelt’s rifle, I can’t imagine what that rifle is worth. Got to be the most expensive Winchester ever sold if it came on the market. That is the most beautiful Winchester I have ever seen. I also am one that would never refinish a piece of American history.   Big Larry  

I do not know if it is true or not but a while back Cowan’s Auctions sent around a flyer showing a Model 1873 that was factory engraved & gold inlaid for the 1876 Centennial Exposition. Sold privately for $1,050,000. 

I don’t know if old Teddy’s gun would reach that mark, but would imagine it would be on up there. As far as I’ve heard that is the most paid for a single Winchester ever, but I could be wrong.

I wish a hand those kinds of peanuts to be tossing around.

Sincerely,

Maverick

I like it but the colors don’t seem to flow like original guns or some of the other restorations. I realize that every CC result is a bit different. I think this sale illustrates the point that restored guns may become a more accepted (and more highly valued) segment of the collector market. Some collectors will never accept them but it may cut down on the number of restorations fraudulently sold as original guns if a quality restoration can command a “fair” price on it’s own merits. JMHO, of course, because quite frankly I’m generally on the sidelines watching both the “high condition” and restored market segments as I don’t wish to pay the price or take the risks of either.

Wincacher said

So, how many years down the line you you think this piece will get promoted from “professionally restored” to “rare original condition”?

I’ll agree with you about boycotting the “high condition” market because I’ll never know enough to be able to discern between a genuinely untouched antique and one that was “professionally restored” 50 years ago.  

 You raise a good point, “restored 50 years ago”. I have no problem spotting a recent recase, but a British recase 70 years ago is the same as Winchester.The Briitish shotgun people used the same procedure as Winchester, add some usage, I can’t tell. People were sending guns or parts of gun’s to England for refinish, the country had a abundance of skilled craftsman refreshing expensive shotguns. The blue was slightly darker, but the case was color perfect, no rounded edges, no light markings, no pits or odd buffing marks. During this time period these skilled craftsman worked on the most expensive guns in the world. Not all will have British proofs, only complete guns sold their, I think? I fell victim to this 20 years ago, a very nice Deluxe 86 in 50/110. The quality of recent refinishes is not to this level because of cost and can be seen easily with a Larry light and a jewelers hood. T/R                                              

Wincacher said 

So, how many years down the line you you think this piece will get promoted from “professionally restored” to “rare original condition”?

I’ll agree with you about boycotting the “high condition” market because I’ll never know enough to be able to discern between a genuinely untouched antique and one that was “professionally restored” 50 years ago.  

I have little doubt we’re seeing it now on other guns, no guarantee it won’t happen to this piece. Best example I can think of is when an estate sells a collection and the executor (and possibly the buyer) knows little or nothing about the guns. Or the gun changes hands a few times between casual collectors who don’t know or care if it’s restored or original. Or a dealer suspects it may be a restored gun but doesn’t know and he represents it in an ambiguous manner. Caveat emptor; a very old concept as valid now as it ever was.

I don’t like some aspects of this possible trend but I think it’s important to watch and try to understand as it will continue and we will have to deal with it whether we like it or not. I like that a respected seller is able to accurately represent an item and receive a good price. I don’t like that an original gun was likely destroyed (at least in the eyes of a traditional collector) but it’s not my gun.

Quite honestly I’m beginning to wonder if some of the better quality restorations represent an investment opportunity as they are often sold for the approximate cost of the restoration.