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Re-case coloring for an early 1886
June 6, 2017
8:26 pm
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Who would you suggest to do a re-case color job on an early set trigger 86 and match original coloring and produce the very least amount of warpage.....Thank you all...... 

June 7, 2017
3:42 am
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Warpage is a result of not taking the right precautions. The last person that did real looking case colors was Rogers Restorations but he is out of it now.

Bob

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June 8, 2017
3:48 pm
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You know Roger didn't do his own case hardening...

June 8, 2017
4:28 pm
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Didn't know that but who ever did it, it looked good.

Bob

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June 9, 2017
12:20 am
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Roger's Winches
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Mike, we've known  each other long enough for you to know that I DID do all my own case color work. From all the prep. work to the furnace and ageing afterward. We've had several discussions on the phone about it. There were several items about it that we did not agree. When I first started my restoration work I sent some of it off to Turnbull, but I knew that I wanted to handle it in house to get the results I wanted, so I learned what was involved and perfected my own methods.

By the way,... How are you? I'm fine. Just bored. I miss not doing the work anymore.

Roger

  

June 9, 2017
2:18 am
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WHIW:  here's and example of Rogers Restorations work.  It certainly doesn't have the exaggerated look of the Turnbull receivers I've seen.  Wish they were still in the business.

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/winchester-1876-deluxe-rifle-rogers-restoration-case-colored-checkered-3x-wood-antique-pre-1898-guns.htm

winchester-1876-deluxe-rifle-rogers-restoration-case-colored-checkered-3x-wood-antique-pre-1898-guns-3.jpgImage Enlarger

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

June 9, 2017
2:33 am
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Wow, very nice work.

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June 9, 2017
2:32 pm
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Wincacher said
It certainly doesn't have the exaggerated look of the Turnbull receivers I've seen.  

I agree with that statement.  I've always hesitated to criticize Turnbull's work because so many people (who are way more experienced than I am) seem to venerate him.  I just thought I must not know what I'm talking about or, perhaps, Winchester's original work also looked exaggerated or cartoonish like Turnbull's, when leaving the factory, and only began to look more reserved and "classic" after 100 years.

Because I don't know the truth, I will just chock it up to "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and say that the example you provide of Roger's Restorations work is more to my liking.  By orders of magnitude.  

June 9, 2017
6:53 pm
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Roger, my friend...I stand corrected and embarrassed.

Mike

 

P.S. PM your phone #

June 9, 2017
7:16 pm
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Or give me a call

June 9, 2017
7:24 pm
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Good points, Huck. I certainly don't know what a new Winchester looked like 120 years ago. I DO know that I like Turnbull's work and after seeing a bit of it I like Roger's work too. To be quite honest restorations as a rule aren't my cup of tea but that doesn't keep me from enjoying the view!

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Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
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Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
June 9, 2017
7:55 pm
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TXGunNut said
To be quite honest restorations as a rule aren't my cup of tea but that doesn't keep me from enjoying the view!  

I agree with that too!  Of course, you are talking to a guy who likes wood so full of sweat and oil that it looks near black, and the dark, dark patina of years of use on the western frontier.  I recognize and respect the monetary value of a nice finish, and they are pretty to look at, but my personal aesthetic runs the other way.  Same with saddle leather and tack.  It goes beyond the notion of history and use.  I really just like the look in it's own right.  Dark, not light; flat, not shiny.

I like that others don't agree and that prices are higher for the "nice" stuff.  I just wish more people hated what I like.  Wink

June 10, 2017
3:58 am
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TXGunNut said
Good points, Huck. I certainly don't know what a new Winchester looked like 120 years ago. I DO know that I like Turnbull's work and after seeing a bit of it I like Roger's work too. To be quite honest restorations as a rule aren't my cup of tea but that doesn't keep me from enjoying the view!  

The best un-adulterated example I have seen of original factory 100+years old color case hardening is Teddy's Model 86.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/teddy-roosevelt/

Those are some pretty colors!

Sincerely,

Maverick

June 10, 2017
5:03 am
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I don't believe it's "exaggeration" or "vividness" of color that sets Turnbull's CCH slightly apart from original Winchester's as it is different shades or hue of colors as I've seen 120+ year old Winchesters that appear almost new where CCH is extremely vivid similar to the Teddy Roosevelt 1886 example Maverick shared. 

I believe Roger's process more mimics a slightly aged CCH that we are more accustomed to seeing on older Winchesters that have been well cared for as opposed to "new" looking Winchester CCH finish that Turnbull's process tries to more simulate. 

Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

June 10, 2017
3:03 pm
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 It is my opinion that a brand-new Winchester case colored hardend finish was slightly different ( better ) than Turnbull's.  I do believe  that Rogers work looks a little bit more frosty compared to an aged Winchester case color gun.

June 10, 2017
10:44 pm
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Regardless of any of any of our preferences, whether Rogers o Turnbull's, they are all altered and non-original examples and have lost their "collectible" value, despite an exorbitant amount of $$$ poured into them.

1876-4-1.jpg

"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." 

June 10, 2017
11:58 pm
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Wincacher said
Regardless of any of any of our preferences, whether Rogers o Turnbull's, they are all altered and non-original examples and have lost their "collectible" value, despite an exorbitant amount of $$$ poured into them.  

I believe most of us will agree on that point. 

Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886

June 11, 2017
12:49 am
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Wincacher said
Regardless of any of any of our preferences, whether Rogers o Turnbull's, they are all altered and non-original examples and have lost their "collectible" value, despite an exorbitant amount of $$$ poured into them.  

I agree, but I've seen a few abused guns that I think are good candidates for restoration. I'll probably never do that because after investing that kind of cash for a beautiful restoration I'd never be able to take it hunting, maybe not even to the range. I do have a hard-used and poorly refinished 1894 that would be a good candidate for restoration but I'd rather have a 110 year old gun that I can (and do!) take hunting.

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Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
June 15, 2017
7:17 am
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The best un-adulterated example I have seen of original factory 100+years old color case hardening is Teddy's Model 86.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/teddy-roosevelt/

Those are some pretty colors!

Sincerely,

Maverick  

That is Winchester's Deluxe CCH so it must be different than their regular CCH, right?

Vince
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June 18, 2017
7:11 pm
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Maverick said

TXGunNut said
Good points, Huck. I certainly don't know what a new Winchester looked like 120 years ago. I DO know that I like Turnbull's work and after seeing a bit of it I like Roger's work too. To be quite honest restorations as a rule aren't my cup of tea but that doesn't keep me from enjoying the view!  

The best un-adulterated example I have seen of original factory 100+years old color case hardening is Teddy's Model 86.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/teddy-roosevelt/

Those are some pretty colors!

Sincerely,

Maverick  

I couldn't locate the photo of the Roosevelt rifle.  I'd like to see it.

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