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Mod. 64 carbine 25-35 FAKE gun
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Posts: 28
September 1, 2022 - 9:06 pm

1sp_QuotePost

New old guy. First post ever on the inter web. Using smart phone. No computer.

Receiver not tapped for Lyman sight.

Short ramp front sight. 20″ Bbl

 

Rear sight dovetail 5″ from rec

Comments?IMG_20220830_102223452.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_20220830_102727389.jpgImage Enlarger

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
September 1, 2022 - 11:43 pm

2sp_QuotePost

Can’t see enough of the rifle to draw any conclusions… what is the serial number on it?

The 20-inch “carbine” variation of the Model 64 is the least common variation, and especially so in caliber 25-35.  Of the 3,301 Model 64 rifles I have documented thus far (in my research survey), just 30 of them are the 20-inch variation in caliber 25-35.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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Wyoming - Gods Country
Posts: 1267
September 1, 2022 - 11:48 pm

3sp_QuotePost

I was thinking the 64 carbines had a rear dovetail at the 4″ location, but maybe that’s not definitive for all of them. Also, the caliber stamp looks to be a different font than I’ve seen. Would be nice to see the whole gun though. I’ve always wanted a 25-35 M64

                                                                               ~Gary~

                                                                                                                                                                              94-SRR.jpg

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Posts: 216
September 2, 2022 - 1:41 am

4sp_QuotePost

I was always told you could tell a cutoff 64 from a real carbine by rear sight dovetail distance from receiver. Supposed to be 4 inches on carbine, 5 inches on rifle. Don’t know if that’s gospel for sure. If it is genuine it is a scarce rifle.

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Posts: 28
September 2, 2022 - 4:05 am

5sp_QuotePost

I think I can only send 2 pics at a time. No one ever showed me how to post this stuff.IMG_20220830_103124515-1.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_20220830_102615870-1.jpgImage Enlarger

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Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Posts: 4860
September 2, 2022 - 6:29 am

6sp_QuotePost

Welcome, Jeff. Nice looking carbine! Good job figuring out how to post from a phone, pretty amazing technology once you figure it out but a constant source of frustration for some of us. I’m thinking a pic of the front half of the barrel from the side would be helpful. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
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Posts: 4096
September 2, 2022 - 12:08 pm

7sp_QuotePost

Looks like a lot of nice blue on that carbine Cool

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Posts: 1375
September 2, 2022 - 12:28 pm

8sp_QuotePost

Welcome to the forum hardhat. Impressive that this was your first post ever on the web.

Nice 64 carbine.

Al

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Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 786
September 2, 2022 - 3:28 pm

9sp_QuotePost

I have a similar 64.  Serial #1236315.  Also not tapped for the receiver sight.  Oddly the two 64’s I have with bolt peep sights are tapped for the receiver sight.  RDB

64-carbine-001.JPGImage Enlarger64-carbine-002.JPGImage Enlarger64-carbine-005.JPGImage Enlarger64-carbine-004.JPGImage Enlarger

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Posts: 216
September 2, 2022 - 8:26 pm

10sp_QuotePost

REALLY nice carbine! Lots of finish remaining. And a deluxe as well.

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
September 3, 2022 - 8:35 pm

11sp_QuotePost

Hardhat DV2 said
I think I can only send 2 pics at a time. No one ever showed me how to post this stuff.IMG_20220830_103124515-1.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_20220830_102615870-1.jpgImage Enlarger

  

Unfortunately I have bad news for you.  When I originally surveyed the S/N on your Model 64, it was a standard Model 94 Carbine in caliber 32 W.S.  I am relatively sure who it was that intentionally reworked it to sell resell it for a large profit. Contact me directly if you want more information.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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Posts: 28
September 4, 2022 - 8:51 pm

12sp_QuotePost

Looks like I got  fake gun from an FFL off Guns International. This is no negative reflection of G.I.

More later.

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Posts: 395
September 4, 2022 - 9:26 pm

13sp_QuotePost

It looks like a gun I saw on Steve Barnett’s website

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Posts: 395
September 4, 2022 - 9:35 pm

14sp_QuotePost

Looks like they aren’t the same gun.  The serial number appears different

 

https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/winchester-1-rifles-for-sale/winchester-model-64-carbine-25-35-wcf

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Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Posts: 4860
September 5, 2022 - 12:17 am

15sp_QuotePost

Hardhat DV2 said
Looks like I got  fake gun from an FFL off Guns International. This is no negative reflection of G.I.

More later.

  

I’m sorry, hope the dealer will make it right.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
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NY
Posts: 6147
September 5, 2022 - 1:28 am

16sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said

I’m sorry, hope the dealer will make it right.

Mike

  

No doubt–internet gun sellers are renowned for their honesty & integrity.

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Posts: 69
September 5, 2022 - 4:27 am

17sp_QuotePost

Hardhat DV2 said
Looks like I got  fake gun from an FFL off Guns International. This is no negative reflection of G.I.

More later.

  

I have 25-35 as a saved search on Guns International and do not recall seeing this one. My search is for 1894 no wonder I didn’t see it.

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Posts: 262
September 5, 2022 - 1:27 pm

18sp_QuotePost

Let’s go over what is necessary to make a plain 94 .32 into a model 64 25-35 carbine. It will need a complete lower receiver and lever. Also a new butt stock and forearm and barrel and magazine tube. So the only part remaining from the Model 94 is the upper receiver. It would be very difficult to locate all these parts to build a fake 64. So it must have been a once complete 64 with a defaced serial number or other damage. Then the “new” Model 94 receiver was added to the parts package. Need to see the proofs on the barrel and receiver for forensic matching. 

Anyone else have a theory about how it was created?

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
September 5, 2022 - 4:31 pm

19sp_QuotePost

CJS57 said
Let’s go over what is necessary to make a plain 94 .32 into a model 64 25-35 carbine. It will need a complete lower receiver and lever. Also a new butt stock and forearm and barrel and magazine tube. So the only part remaining from the Model 94 is the upper receiver. It would be very difficult to locate all these parts to build a fake 64. So it must have been a once complete 64 with a defaced serial number or other damage. Then the “new” Model 94 receiver was added to the parts package. Need to see the proofs on the barrel and receiver for forensic matching. 

Anyone else have a theory about how it was created?  

Not a “theory”… instead Fact.

The fellow who created this Fake Model 64 is well known to me (and several other WACA members), and he is known to have “manufactured” dozens of Fake Winchesters in rare or very uncommon configurations.  Many years ago it was said that he bought up a large batch of Winchester barrels and parts when Winchester began disposing of them (in the late 1960s).  This Model 64 (and several others in calibers 32-40 and 38-55) suddenly appeared for sale about 13-14 years ago.  A good friend of mine bought three of them (including this rifle), and then asked me for my assessment of them… all three were very high quality Fakes, but each one of them had small perceptible errors that can be detected by someone who knows what to look for.  I personally had my hands on this gun (serial number) when it was still a Model 94 Carbine in caliber 32 W.S.  (at the Big Reno show).  The crook who altered it routinely trolled the isles at the Big Reno show looking for nice condition Model 94 Carbines (which at the time were relatively cheap to procure) to use for his “projects”.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 786
September 5, 2022 - 5:43 pm

20sp_QuotePost

A note of interest: My MODEL 64 25-35 carbine has a roll mark in front of the front sight.  “J. F. KREUZ  AUSTIN TEX.”  I was informed that because of the roll mark (stamping) the collector value is diminished greatly.  RDB

64-Stamp-003.JPGImage Enlarger

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