rogertherelic said
A note of interest: My MODEL 64 25-35 carbine has a roll mark in front of the front sight.  “J. F. KREUZ  AUSTIN TEX.”  I was informed that because of the roll mark (stamping) the collector value is diminished greatly.  RDB

 

  

Roger, the fool who told you that should be de-friended.  Kreuz was a highly-regarded Texas gunsmith, & any gun passing through his hands should be regarded as something special.  Since most late production guns have no documented “history,” at least you know something about this one.  I wouldn’t go quite so far as to say his name adds value (though it very well might to a Texas collector), but certainly it does not detract.  What say you, TXGunNut?

Bert H. said

CJS57 said

Let’s go over what is necessary to make a plain 94 .32 into a model 64 25-35 carbine. It will need a complete lower receiver and lever. Also a new butt stock and forearm and barrel and magazine tube. So the only part remaining from the Model 94 is the upper receiver. It would be very difficult to locate all these parts to build a fake 64. So it must have been a once complete 64 with a defaced serial number or other damage. Then the “new” Model 94 receiver was added to the parts package. Need to see the proofs on the barrel and receiver for forensic matching. 

Anyone else have a theory about how it was created?  

Not a “theory”… instead Fact.

The fellow who created this Fake Model 64 is well known to me (and several other WACA members), and he is known to have “manufactured” dozens of Fake Winchesters in rare or very uncommon configurations.  Many years ago it was said that he bought up a large batch of Winchester barrels and parts when Winchester began disposing of them (in the late 1960s).  This Model 64 (and several others in calibers 32-40 and 38-55) suddenly appeared for sale about 13-14 years ago.  A good friend of mine bought three of them (including this rifle), and then asked me for my assessment of them… all three were very high quality Fakes, but each one of them had small perceptible errors that can be detected by someone who knows what to look for.  I personally had my hands on this gun (serial number) when it was still a Model 94 Carbine in caliber 32 W.S.  (at the Big Reno show).  The crook who altered it routinely trolled the isles at the Big Reno show looking for nice condition Model 94 Carbines (which at the time were relatively cheap to procure) to use for his “projects”.

Bert

  

Is this individual a member of the WACA? If so why? 

mike webb said
Unfortunately fakers read this and other forums to find ways to make their fakes perfect. Might be best to PM such details at least that is common practice on K98 forum as fakery runs rampant in Nazi marked items as well. 

  

There are hundreds of fake WW I ’03 sniper-rifles for every original; one sold on Rock Island few yrs ago for big dough. 

Now if a fake is TRULY perfect, one might ask “how would anyone know?” 

clarence said

rogertherelic said

A note of interest: My MODEL 64 25-35 carbine has a roll mark in front of the front sight.  “J. F. KREUZ  AUSTIN TEX.”  I was informed that because of the roll mark (stamping) the collector value is diminished greatly.  RDB

 

  

Roger, the fool who told you that should be de-friended.  Kreuz was a highly-regarded Texas gunsmith, & any gun passing through his hands should be regarded as something special.  Since most late production guns have no documented “history,” at least you know something about this one.  I wouldn’t go quite so far as to say his name adds value (though it very well might to a Texas collector), but certainly it does not detract.  What say you, TXGunNut?

  

I’ve heard of Kreuz but have never seen a Winchester so stamped. I’d probably pay a little extra for it, just as I would for one with a “Browning Bros” stamp. Did Sheard stamp his guns? If so one so stamped wouldn’t hurt my feelings. I had a few custom guns built awhile back by Lou Williamson but he stamped his name on the inside,

To add to the original thread I just noticed that there were six members online and 85 “Guests”. A fair portion of those guests are likely to be lurkers and I wouldn’t be surprised if the person who caused this gun to be built is well aware of this site. He’s very knowledgeable but probably wouldn’t miss the chance to make his fakes better. 

Mike

Hardhat DV2 said
 I have had this supposed Mod. 64 25-35 carbine for 22 days and put about 60 cast handloads thru it. I posted it on this forum and got an education. I left a message on the dealers phone that I was concerned about it being authentic. He promptly returned my call. We both were polite. He said the transaction was too far out. It was past the three day inspection. He said maybe if it was within a week he would have done something. He said it was not represented as an original on Guns International but as a 64 25-35 carbine. He said the cache could show that. (I am not sure what that is. I asked about the possibility of getting money back and he responded there is nothing he could do. It is just to far out. I offered to buy it at as an altered gun at a reduced price but he wasn’t interested. I told him I still liked the gun just not the price. We said our goodbyes . No yelling or cussing. End of story………but since it is fake I can take pride in the fact it is a high quality fake made in America?and not off shore. It is pleasant to plink with.

  

Would you share which dealer sold this to you?

Hardhat DV2 said
I am done whining about this gun. The money is gone but now that the college loan is for given by  Mr. Biden things are looking up. Oh that’s right I didn’t go to college but to a trade school on the G.I. bill and got a job. Thanks to all opinions. I think my next post will be on a Mod. 42 . Maybe that will go better.?

  

Hardhat –

I find myself admiring your perspective on this rifle.  A path that avoids having a stroke over something that doesn’t go right, is a good path.  It also sounds like you are focusing on the positives – you’ve shot the gun, it shoots well and it is a fun piece.  I’ve seen several 64 carbines with various alterations (e.g. reblued, sanded wood, extra tap holes) and this piece doesn’t look like any of them.