1886 40 Express|Page 4|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

steve004 said
On the topic of .50 calibers – here’s a group – .50-70 shot, .50-95 shot, .50-110 shot and .50-110 bulleted.  They will all chamber in my Standard Arms .50 caliber “CAMP .50”.  The only difference is the .50-70 won’t clear the ejection port as the rim is too wide.  

This is a firearm that supposedly chambered a proprietary cartridge – both a “buck” version and a “ball” version.  From what I can tell, not a single living human has actually seen one of these cartridges. 

  

Steve-

Silly question but gotta ask; is that Camp 50 rifled or smoothbore?

Mike

TXGunNut said

That’s a new one for me, Chuck. Can’t say I’ve heard of Miller’s formula, either. I’ve dabbled with the Greenhill formula but it’s been a long time. Nice of Berger to let us plug in the numbers, when I last used the Greenhill formula I had to use pencil, paper and calculator. Can’t wait to use the Berger app for my Lyman clone of the Gould cast bullets. 

 

Mike

  

Mike, look up Brian Litz.  He is the chief ballistician for Berger bullets, Applied Ballistics and Kestrel products.  He was an aerospace engineer.  He has written many books on ballistics and does work for the Military.  He has seminars where the team will actually test fire your loads in your rifle and give you the ballistic coefficient of your actual bullets.  The BC on a box of bullets is not always what they actually are when fired in different conditions.  His team has tested hundreds of bullets and have better numbers to use in a ballistic calculator. I use a Kestrel 5700 X when figuring long distance shooting solutions.

TXGunNut said

steve004 said

On the topic of .50 calibers – here’s a group – .50-70 shot, .50-95 shot, .50-110 shot and .50-110 bulleted.  They will all chamber in my Standard Arms .50 caliber “CAMP .50”.  The only difference is the .50-70 won’t clear the ejection port as the rim is too wide.  

This is a firearm that supposedly chambered a proprietary cartridge – both a “buck” version and a “ball” version.  From what I can tell, not a single living human has actually seen one of these cartridges. 

  

Steve-

Silly question but gotta ask; is that Camp 50 rifled or smoothbore?

 

Mike

  

Mike -is a smoothbore.  However it is advertised as both a shotgun and a rifle.  What fascinates the heck out of me is that they do not state what cartridge it takes yet they state, cartridges are furnished by standard cartridge manufacturers, “such standard ammunition manufacturers” and go on to mention UMC, Remington, Winchester and Peters.  Really, all of these manufacturers made cartridges for this rifle/shotgun and no one has ever seen a single round?  It used to be people thought it was a specialized .50-70 round.  I’ve disproved that theory given the rim is to thick to clear the ejection port.  The other theory is is a .50-95 chambering.  If that is the case, why would the chamber accept a .50-110 round?  I’ve sort of switched the question around.  Rather than ask what .50 caliber cartridge was this gun chambered for, maybe the question is:  what .50 caliber cartridge wasn’t it chambered for? Did they build it such that a variety of .50 caliber cartridges of the period would work?  If that were the case, you would think they would promote that in their ads?  George Fink was a Standard Arms collector and was writing a book on the topic before he died.  I had been in contact with him.  He had looked for a cartridge for most of his adult life and came up with nothing.  He had taken a chamber case of his rifle and he told me, “that provided more questions than answers.”  I haven’t chamber cast mine, but given the .50-110 cartridge chambered, I suspect it looks like a straight shotgun chamber.

steve004 said

TXGunNut said

steve004 said

On the topic of .50 calibers – here’s a group – .50-70 shot, .50-95 shot, .50-110 shot and .50-110 bulleted.  They will all chamber in my Standard Arms .50 caliber “CAMP .50”.  The only difference is the .50-70 won’t clear the ejection port as the rim is too wide.  

This is a firearm that supposedly chambered a proprietary cartridge – both a “buck” version and a “ball” version.  From what I can tell, not a single living human has actually seen one of these cartridges. 

  

Steve-

Silly question but gotta ask; is that Camp 50 rifled or smoothbore?

 

Mike

  

Mike -is a smoothbore.  However it is advertised as both a shotgun and a rifle.  What fascinates the heck out of me is that they do not state what cartridge it takes yet they state, cartridges are furnished by standard cartridge manufacturers, “such standard ammunition manufacturers” and go on to mention UMC, Remington, Winchester and Peters.  Really, all of these manufacturers made cartridges for this rifle/shotgun and no one has ever seen a single round?  It used to be people thought it was a specialized .50-70 round.  I’ve disproved that theory given the rim is to thick to clear the ejection port.  The other theory is is a .50-95 chambering.  If that is the case, why would the chamber accept a .50-110 round?  I’ve sort of switched the question around.  Rather than ask what .50 caliber cartridge was this gun chambered for, maybe the question is:  what .50 caliber cartridge wasn’t it chambered for? Did they build it such that a variety of .50 caliber cartridges of the period would work?  If that were the case, you would think they would promote that in their ads?  George Fink was a Standard Arms collector and was writing a book on the topic before he died.  I had been in contact with him.  He had looked for a cartridge for most of his adult life and came up with nothing.  He had taken a chamber case of his rifle and he told me, “that provided more questions than answers.”  I haven’t chamber cast mine, but given the .50-110 cartridge chambered, I suspect it looks like a straight shotgun chamber.

  

All,   I have gone through Dan Shuey’s book on headstamps for WRA cartridges and nothing showed an S and H on the headstamps.  He did mention that the solid head was called out on some boxes for cartridges, and my guess (and that is all it is) is if they touted it on the boxes, likely they did on the head stamps.  Anyone else have an idea??  Tim

Bert H. said

tim tomlinson said

All, I am a bit “late to the party!”  Often am.  I THINK the S and H designate “solid head” vs balloon head construction of the cartridges.  I may get around to checking references to see, but seems I’ve more to do than time to do it, so sit in my chair with amber colored libation and mentally take flights of fancy.  Tim

So, are you are turning into a doddering old Lush (drunkard) ?

  

I admire his patience. I started Saturday AND Sunday with a Bloody Mary. It’s 5 o’clock somewhere and I don’t wear a watch. It’s good being retired! Had meetings scheduled all day today so did not make it a hat trick. I enjoy them more if I wait until Saturday. (Note to self: bar cooler needs another bag of ice!)

Mike

Folks,  Circling back here ref the .70-150 bullet in my friend’s cartridge.  He called me earlier today and says it is a solid, round nosed, flat tipped lead bullet.  No hollow point nor a copper tube insert.  That neither helps or hurts the discussion we had as far as I can say.  Just one more data point for consideration.

Tim