1886 40 Express|Page 3|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Blue Ridge Parson said

  

Now this is quite educational. Knowing absolutely nothing about the express rounds, the cutaway shown above would lead me to conclude that the copper tubing acts as a sort of hollow point round, promoting faster expansion, and also would reduce the weight of the bullet, thus giving faster speed and flatter trajectory.  Was that the express intent (pun intended) of Winchester, or was something else at play.

BRP

  

Sometimes an express round is just a lighter bullet, like the 45-90.  For the ones that have the tube I believe it was for expansion.  There are some rounds that have just a hole for the expansion.  I believe these were called a Gould.  Not sure what you’d call the 45-82?  It is 45-90 length but has a 400 grain bullet.

Faster twist stabilizes heavier bullets.  Yes with the same bullet shape the heavier ones can be longer.  But depending on the type of ogive some lighter ones can have a longer OAL. The hunting bullets with plastic tips have ribs inside to lock the jacket to the core for expansion. Target bullets with the same tips do not lock to the core.  I shoot some 155 grain bullets that are longer than the 168’s but they both stabilize with the same twist.

Chuck, BRP, etc.  I called several times yesterday and didn’t get any answer.  About bet he has gone to visit his daughter and her family in  TX.  By the time he returns, and I get an answer, I will have lost this thread.  But I have hope I won’t.  If I was a betting man, I would guess the “express” tube functioned to keep the hollow point from mashing in as the cartridges were handled, etc.  I think the lead bullets back then were pretty soft.  Possibly the tube also helped initiate expansion some like our current tipped bullets, but think the protection of the cavity and the opening maybe more important.  Just my take as I’ve not read anywhere on this.  Or that I recall at least.  Tim

steve004 said

  

I’m not up to speed on .70-150 cartridges.  Were some of the headstamped? If so, just manufacturer or caliber designation as well?

  

I can’t remember but there is one of the Winchester cartridge boards with one of these on the top corner.

This has been interesting and educational.  It prompted me to open a box with some cartridges I have  – that I haven’t looked at in (many years).  Here’s a .45-85 I have:

This is my favorite .45-90 factory loading:

A pair of .50-110 Express.  They both have the copper tube with the X  The cartridges are marked identically but if they were in a full box, you could pick the headstamps out as not being precisely the same:

On the topic of .50 calibers – here’s a group – .50-70 shot, .50-95 shot, .50-110 shot and .50-110 bulleted.  They will all chamber in my Standard Arms .50 caliber “CAMP .50”.  The only difference is the .50-70 won’t clear the ejection port as the rim is too wide.  

This is a firearm that supposedly chambered a proprietary cartridge – both a “buck” version and a “ball” version.  From what I can tell, not a single living human has actually seen one of these cartridges. 

Bert H. said

steve004 said

On the topic of .50-110, here’s one that’s a bit different:

  

Steve,

That is a smokeless powder loaded Shot shell made specifically for the Single Shot rifle.  I have a full box of 50-95 WCF shot shells that are nearly identical.

Bert

 

  Bert – that’s a cool box and cool cartridges.  I vaguely seem to recall when it came up for sale?  You haven’t owned it for a lot of years?  If I’m right, I recall having some interest as I thought it would go well with my CAMP 50.  Also, if I recall correctly, it wasn’t bargain priced.

Bert H. said
Steve,

I have owned that box for 18-years now.  It was not cheap when I bought it from Walt Hallstein, and it is one of only two known complete boxes.

Bert

  

Bert – do you recall another partial box that came up for sale in more recent years?  I don’t think it was an auction.