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November 7, 2015
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Good point about the Winchester trademarks, I’m sure someone still owns all of them. If the decals were licensed that may simplify things but things are never as simple as they seem to me. I’ve been dealing with bureaucrats in several agencies and NGO’s on a very intensive basis for over two years but I’ve still managed to cling to a few threads of optimism.
Mike
July 3, 2020
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I confirm my request to purchase 5… not a bid, that was Burt… if I need to beat Burt’s “bid”, just let me know. 🙂
December 21, 2006
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My take ,(for what it’s worth), is just sell the “blessed” things, it’s not like there’s 7500 of ’em or they’re going in to production and cutting in to someone’s business. Plus I believe You said the original owner was deceased quite a while back. I have to wonder how many manufactureres of the “fake” Winchesters that are floating around bothered to get an exemption from the companies patent rights
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
January 20, 2023
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You didn’t hear it from me BUT, sometimes it’s easier to ask forgiveness afterward than permission beforehand.
I note that an Olin/Winchester Ammunition officer is an honorary WACA member, not a Browning representative. Olin owns the marks. We are allowed to buy guns to auction from Browning but it is only a licensee.
If I were like Yertle the Turtle, king of all I surveyed, I would have a quiet conversation with my contact at Olin and say WACA has been given 75 possibly infringing gun racks we.want to dispose of. Do you want any royalty?
Important Safety Tip: the foregoing adage does not apply to male/female relationships. Failing to obtain prior permission can get you cut, shot, or a long stretch of making license plates.
The issue with these racks, for those of us living far away, is going to be packing and shipping. If they are not disposed of at shows and the buyer has to hump it home his ownself.
To illustrate: I just placed an order for a three-pack of Cameron Rifle Kits and a five-pack of the plain boxes, for $158 USD. However, the cheapest low and slow shipping from Ohio was $162, essentially doubling the price. And we’re just talking cardboard.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
March 15, 2020
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Wouldn’t Winchester have to sue the manufacturer of these? Is there any makers info on them? No patent dates or trademark of the maker. Would the WACA label be considered the maker? I think you are overly concerned as Winchester wouldn’t know who to sue.
November 7, 2015
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86Win said
Wouldn’t Winchester have to sue the manufacturer of these? Is there any makers info on them? No patent dates or trademark of the maker. Would the WACA label be considered the maker? I think you are overly concerned as Winchester wouldn’t know who to sue.
I think the goal here is to avoid conflict of any kind. Winchester (as we know it today) has been good to WACA and no one wants to jeopardize that.
Mike
June 1, 2023
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Mike is absolutely right.
BRP
February 19, 2013
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I’m with Henry on this one. Just go to ebay and look at all the fake winchester tags and so forth. Do you think they are paying any royalties to Olin. NOPE!! Sell them, put some change in your pocket and make a donation to WACA and call it a day.
Yes, i would still like to purchase one and will gladly pay shipping and handling fees and i’m sure they will be a pain in the butt to package and ship.
Just my .02 cents…….
January 20, 2023
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86Win said
Wouldn’t Winchester have to sue the manufacturer of these? Is there any makers info on them? No patent dates or trademark of the maker. Would the WACA label be considered the maker? I think you are overly concerned as Winchester wouldn’t know who to sue.
The short answer is no. Winchester wouldn’t have to sue the manufacturer. The Winchester horse and rider logo is a registered trademark owned by Olin Corporation. If that mark is applied to any object without Olin’s permission, Olin can sue anybody who puts the object in commerce to recover royalties, attorney fees, court costs, and sometimes an order requiring the objects be turned over or destroyed.
The burden of proof is on the seller to show permission.
Olin may have a design patent in place protecting the horse and rider but trademark law is what we’re talking about here.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
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As Mike and Timothy have said, the concern is having a good relationship with Olin. And – although we do not offer an honorary membership to any Browning or FNH officers – we need to maintain a friendly relationship with the Winchester gunmaking licensee. They donate one auction gun and sell the second one to us at cost.
I’m not so pessimistic about getting Olin’s blessing, if it’s approached in the right way. And even if bureaucracy made it impossible, I think doing them the courtesy would be favorably remembered. As Ive already said, the key things in the request are:
1. We are your friends and don’t want to offend you.
2. We would like to benefit WACA by selling these nice racks. Our members want to buy them.
3.We are not asking permission to make more. There are only 75 of them.
4. We believe the logo applications were unauthorized and may be infringing. If you want us to pay royalty, we will do so.
5. May we please have your indulgence in this de minimus matter?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
July 3, 2020
Online
When this finally gets all sorted out, I would be in favor of getting them properly. numbered! Limited edition! Only 75 available! Then we can then bid on which number(s) we want! They will be remembered, forever… or at least until we all die. 😂. And chances are pretty good that some of us may do that before this gets resolved…. 🥀
but just in case, I’d like #’s 52, 61, 62, 70 & 75 😎
April 15, 2005
Online
Ben said
They will be remembered, forever… or at least until we all die. 😂. And chances are pretty good that some of us may do that before this gets resolved…. 🥀
Is that a threat or a promise? I do not know what your plans are, but I am planning to haunt this old world for at least another 40-years (and still driving that old Dodge Cummins truck while doing it)!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
July 3, 2020
Online
Bert, my current rate of physical decline, indicates I should no longer buy green bananas… I blame it mostly the first two mRNA Covid shots I received… and the rest on the stupid choices made in college.
April 15, 2005
Online
Ben said
Bert, my current rate of physical decline, indicates I should no longer buy green bananas… I blame it mostly the first two mRNA Covid shots I received… and the rest on the stupid choices made in college.
I blame most of my physical ills on the nearly 21-years I spent riding around in Nuclear Submarines… and possibly on all of that excessive drinking I did in various liberty ports…
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 14, 2025
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Bert H. said
Ben said
Bert, my current rate of physical decline, indicates I should no longer buy green bananas… I blame it mostly the first two mRNA Covid shots I received… and the rest on the stupid choices made in college.
I blame most of my physical ills on the nearly 21-years I spent riding around in Nuclear Submarines… and possibly on all of that excessive drinking I did in various liberty ports…
Bert did you ever serve with a Sheldon McElhiney? He is my cousin and spent almost 30 years in the Navy on subs.
February 17, 2022
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I like Ben’s idea. I’ll take 32, 33, and 45, and maybe Buck could fudge 45 to say 45-90!
Btw you two supposed old farts, Don’t forget I got to meet each of you last year at Cody and neither one of you looked like there where 6 people ready to carry the box for you!!!!
April 15, 2005
Online
Buck94 said
Bert H. said
Ben said
Bert, my current rate of physical decline, indicates I should no longer buy green bananas… I blame it mostly the first two mRNA Covid shots I received… and the rest on the stupid choices made in college.
I blame most of my physical ills on the nearly 21-years I spent riding around in Nuclear Submarines… and possibly on all of that excessive drinking I did in various liberty ports…
Bert did you ever serve with a Sheldon McElhiney? He is my cousin and spent almost 30 years in the Navy on subs.
That name does not ring any bells with me. I spent all of my time on “Boomers” (Ballistic Missile boats).
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
Online
oldcrankyyankee said
I like Ben’s idea. I’ll take 32, 33, and 45, and maybe Buck could fudge 45 to say 45-90!
Btw you two supposed old farts, Don’t forget I got to meet each of you last year at Cody and neither one of you looked like there where 6 people ready to carry the box for you!!!!
I made no claim that I was in need of pall bearers anytime soon… in fact just the opposite! I fully plan to be a pain in my family’s fanny for another 40+ years… the only question is whether or not the Old Dodge is still on 4-wheel and running!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
February 17, 2022
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Bert H. said
oldcrankyyankee said
I like Ben’s idea. I’ll take 32, 33, and 45, and maybe Buck could fudge 45 to say 45-90!
Btw you two supposed old farts, Don’t forget I got to meet each of you last year at Cody and neither one of you looked like there where 6 people ready to carry the box for you!!!!
I made no claim that I was in need of pall bearers anytime soon… in fact just the opposite! I fully plan to be a pain in my family’s fanny for another 40+ years… the only question is whether or not the Old Dodge is still on 4-wheel and running!
Bert
At this point that old Dodge will out last all of us! and probably still run after the magnetic pulse hits us.
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