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November 7, 2015
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The fact that it makes no sense to beat a dead horse has not always kept some folks from flogging it.
Mike
January 20, 2023
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Mike, do you seriously think the marks owner is going to sue the guy who has acquired these 75 old racks, to prevent distribution?
Bearing in mind that it’s Olin that owns the marks, not FNH, the intelligent thing for the purchaser to do is [1] ask Olin whether they have any objection to disposing of the racks to WACA members, whether or not the marks are infringing, [2] making clear the owner, a WACA member, has no intent to manufacture and [3] there are only 75 racks involved.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
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Zebulon said
Mike, do you seriously think the marks owner is going to sue the guy who has acquired these 75 old racks, to prevent distribution?
Nope, but I have painful memories of being a defendant in a lawsuit I “won”, no thanks to estate’s attorney. Ironically, estate’s attorney is the only one who profited from the suit. I’ve learned to be careful and I’m only asking that OP consider the issue.
Mike
January 20, 2023
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TXGunNut said
Zebulon said
Mike, do you seriously think the marks owner is going to sue the guy who has acquired these 75 old racks, to prevent distribution?
Nope, but I have painful memories of being a defendant in a lawsuit I “won”, no thanks to estate’s attorney. Ironically, estate’s attorney is the only one who profited from the suit. I’ve learned to be careful and I’m only asking that OP consider the issue.
Mike
He’s obviously already considering it or he wouldn’t have asked for advice.
Rather than going down the rabbit hole of trying to learn if the maker used the marks with permission, the simpler solution is to construct a request that reassures the marks owner it is a de minimus situation and ask its blessing.
[1] ask Olin whether they have any objection to disposing of the racks to WACA members, whether or not the marks are infringing, [2] making clear the owner, a WACA member, has no intent to manufacture and [3] there are only 75 racks involved.
That puts the whole thing in proper perspective. Nobody knows if the maker got permission. There are only 75 of the critters. The distribution would be within the family.
I would suggest going through any friendly Olin/WACA contact rather than cold.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
August 27, 2014
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Still believe there’s more to the story, the original owner lived in Milford which is only 10 miles from New Haven
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
July 3, 2020
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Getting to complicated for my brain. I just want to buy 5 If they do become available. Bert, if you think can buy them for just $6. ea, you were under water too long…. and too close to the reactor…
January 8, 2025
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I would happily make a a donation, to receive a mystery box item. Loophole…
May 14, 2025
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MidwestCrisis said
Tedk said
MidwestCrisis said
As a mouse walking amongst elephants, I will say. The OP was from a standing member and said he had 75. He made it sound like he purchased them, from someone just wanting them out of a garage. Since none of you Wise old sages had any issues with the logo, and started discussing where they might have came from, I definitely wanted one. Purchasing and shipping is the conundrum.
I assumed Buck made two and wanted to see how many he could sell before he made more.
I stand by my order. Just need the info.
As a mouse walking among elephants?
I respect all you old timers. These gun racks are really neat. I knew I didn’t know what I was talking about. I was more just asking questions with my assumption. I didn’t mean to offend buck if I did. I am definitely buying one if buck offers them for sale. As I said. I wouldn’t care if they were new. That was all I meant. I wonder if he had them made and then Winchesters lawyers had an issue.
Sorry, no you did not offend me. I just wanted to be clear what these were and where I got them from. We have all seen a few scams roll through here so your assumption had a decent chance of being correct but simply wasn’t in my case. No sleight of hand. I really bought them at auction as I stated and do have 75. Heather from WACA did reach back out and says no one can confirm them but Jennifer Goyle stated the WACA logo is old and was used in the 80’s and early 90’s. She believes as did Bert these were never an approved item. Heather has been great and will speak with Vinny tomorrow and gather his thoughts on what we can do with these. I’ll report back as I learn more. Thanks
January 20, 2023
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Tedk said
Still believe there’s more to the story, the original owner lived in Milford which is only 10 miles from New Haven
Ted, That may well be so but the odds are we aren’t going to ever know unless somebody within Winchester Ammunition still knows. The Winchester intellectual property belongs to the Olin Corporation [NYSE symbol OLN], of which Winchester Ammunitiion is one of three operating divsions and reporting segments.
Somebody authorizes the manufacture of gun socks, carousel gun racks, gun safes, and other items bearing the horse and rider logo. I believe that is the marks owner, Olin Corporation, not Browning Arms Company d/b/a BACO, Inc., which merely licenses the Winchester name and marks and applies them to the firearms it contracts to be built by Miroku Firearms Manufacturing Company, a subsidiary Japanese corporation of its parent, Miroku Corporation.
The foregoing might seem tedious but everybody first needs to know the exact names and relationships to decide who to go talk to. In this case, I think there is very likely an intellectual property manager at Winchester Ammunition in East Alton, Illinois, who likely reports to a corporate officer of Olin Corporation, that would know about this stuff, if anybody still does.
It smells like a very small potatoes deal that didn’t make or fell through, although there’s the possibility it was a wildcat maker who never got licensed. Speaking only for myself and hypothetically, if I had a shrinkwrapped pallet of these things I’d bought in a rash moment, and now had my WACA pals pestering me to sell them, I would find out who the IP manager was at Winchester Ammunition, explain my tale of woe — and that there are only 75 pieces in the known Universe– and ask for his or her help. Emphasizing that all the interested parties are loyal fans and supporters of Winchester brand ammunition and — if all else fails — asking whether a small royalty on sales might cut the Gordian knot?
That would be a lot easier than irritating WA employees who have better things to do than try to research whether some guy in Connecticut got a license these many years ago.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
May 14, 2025
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Guys just wanted to offer an update. I spoke with Vinny (WACA President & very nice guy) and as Bert surmised these racks were never approved. Not a biggie as the previous WACA owner had them in his personal collection and never tried to sell them. It was only in his passing that his daughter sold them in liquidating his estate. She, like most folks would have never known they were unapproved. Vinny is working with the WACA Board and the tentative plan is for me to simply donate them to WACA. WACA can then in turn get them to members. My only ask was that Bert is involved to ensure the members here in the Forum who wanted one have a chance to acquire it. I can’t guarantee it as the WACA Board really has finally say, as they should but I trust Bert will fight for those he feels are deserving! I wish to be clear WACA is not forcing me to give these up even though legally they could. Vinny was as nice as he could be. Even though everyone clearly loved these and I could have likely sold them all and made a couple bucks, I could not in good conscience make money off illegally using WACA’s name – much less in their own house! It is WACA who deserves to make money off their name and of course any monies only support all of us any way. Hopefully, that makes this a win win for all of us and trust once the WACA Board can dot the i’s and cross the t’s these will become available in some way to members!
Thanks to everyone for your interest and I hope everyone feels WACA getting these is the right outcome!
June 1, 2023
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Buck,
I think you have done the right thing, and I applaud your honesty and decency in doing so.
BRP
November 7, 2015
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Buck94-
I seem to recall you purchased these in good faith, I hope you can be reimbursed. Maybe complimentary tables at the Cody Show. I suspect they will be a popular item when offered, just as tables at the Cody Show seem to be.
Mike
February 24, 2017
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Buck,
I would agree with BRP-your honesty and integrity is to be commended.
Kevin
March 15, 2020
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might I suggest if WACA gets these the board determines a price per each. There might be more than 75 that want one. Have those that want one submit their name for a drawing. This would seem fair to me. I would like one if I were lucky.
Just a thought. Don
March 21, 2011
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By my unofficial count 34 are spoken for, depending if Ben reiterated his bid for 5 or not as i didn’t review. That said I’d like to be in the consideration for 2 of the racks however the format plays out by the board of directors.
Did I mention real men collect and shoot single shots?
Darrin
April 15, 2005
Online
Darrin Smith said
Did I mention real men collect and shoot single shots?
Darrin
You just got my vote 
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 21, 2006
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And I’m still needin’ a couple. I think they would be wonderful racks for some of the Commemorative guns.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
November 7, 2015
Online
Buck94-
I wonder if possibly the WACA board could agree to a nominal royalty fee and allow you to do with them as you wish. That would free WACA from marketing, storing, selling and shipping these racks. I’d call that a win-win for all involved.
Mike
May 14, 2025
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TXGunNut said
Buck94-
I wonder if possibly the WACA board could agree to a nominal royalty fee and allow you to do with them as you wish. That would free WACA from marketing, storing, selling and shipping these racks. I’d call that a win-win for all involved.
Mike
Mike, that would be a Bert and Vinny call but doubtful and keep in mind the Winchester logo was also illegally used so Vinny has to clear it with them as well and I imagine WACA handling them is an easier sale to Winchester than a rogue profiteer. 
Vinny did tell me Winchester can be slow to move, so no fault of WACA but imagine this will take some time to resolve itself.
February 17, 2022
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Buck94 said
TXGunNut said
Buck94-
I wonder if possibly the WACA board could agree to a nominal royalty fee and allow you to do with them as you wish. That would free WACA from marketing, storing, selling and shipping these racks. I’d call that a win-win for all involved.
Mike
Mike, that would be a Bert and Vinny call but doubtful and keep in mind the Winchester logo was also illegally used so Vinny has to clear it with them as well and I imagine WACA handling them is an easier sale to Winchester than a rogue profiteer. Vinny did tell me Winchester can be slow to move, so no fault of WACA but imagine this will take some time to resolve itself.
After dealing with a corporate entity for longer that I care to think about, my guess is I will be dead and buried before they move on a decision. Sorry just my yankee opionion.
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