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I was viewing this YouTube video a friend sent me and found it interesting, and some possible new information, to me, on the Henry Rifle. With the gap in the serial numbers claimed here, is it possible, approximately 5000 Henry Rifles were mfg. and not the supposedly approximate 12,000-14,000 Henry’s. With no Factory records available, and the Henry rifle’s numbers encroaching into the model 1866 rifle’s production, around approximate serial numbers, 12,832. Is it possible with gaps in the serial numbers?
For me, Les Quick’s, 2008 book, on the Henry rifle, being the most formidable information on this subject, will be viewed, for curiosity sake.
I await others opinion’s.
Anthony
This is the first time I have heard the 5000 number. Where did it come from? Why would New Haven Arms skip serial numbers when they started from s/n one? What would be the purpose?
I know many iron frame Henry’s have duplicate serial numbers of brass frame ones, but this is new to me if correct. T/R
First time for me also. I’m not sure either. I’m hoping many of the more experienced Henry collector’s who have been around, can chime in, and maybe we can try to figure this claim out collectively.
Anthony
@TXGUNNUT, you recognize this TGCA person? Said he was Jeff Goodson I think, he still active?
Jeremy P said
@TXGUNNUT, you recognize this TGCA person? Said he was Jeff Goodson I think, he still active?
Jeremy,
I was thinking the same thing.
After looking into Les Quick’s Book, for what it’s worth, he shows George Maddis Survey, published in 1961, with cumulative numbers of 14,094, Henry rifles. 1860-1866.
Wiley Sword’s research, 2002 estimated Henry rifle, cumulative production, 12,850. 1862-1866.(none mfg in 1960,1861).
Difference in Survey numbers, but a lot more manufactured than the 5,000 that Jeff Goodson, who was sporting a Texas Gun Collectors Ass. shirt, claimed in his YouTube video, that I posted.
Anthony
Based on my observations over the past 40+ years, the 5,000 number is not accurate. I believe that Wiley Sword’s estimate is very close to the actual number.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Based on my observations over the past 40+ years, the 5,000 number is not accurate.
I agree, 5,000 is not accurate at all and would be of the opinion closer to the 13-14,000 number more realistic for production. And I’m not as old as Bert or been collecting as long.
Back when I was really into keeping track of everything Winchester, which I’m too busy with work to do now. I would keep info on serials but usually they had a special feature or are unique somehow (engraved, inscribed, plated, inspector marked) or in high condition. I have seen serials of Henrys in just about every few hundred guns between #1 to 15,000.
This one is #14,362 is a pretty high numbered Henry. 
#14994 is interesting as it has a Henry barrel but flat sided loading gate on the receiver. These two examples were sold by WACA member Rob Kassab. Of course there is a high mixture of model 66s in with the Henry serials after 13,000.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
This is the main reason I posted this interesting video. I thought the video poster had some good points, and even found it interesting, but I have to agree with Bert, and Brady, on their views, as Wiley Sword’s 2002 survey, was based on as much newer, informative factual based information, that has been published and gathered into his survey numbers.
TR, brought up another good point. Why would Winchester skip numbers in their production of the Henry rifle?
Anthony
Interesting information and discussion. I’ve never owned a Henry. There’s a problem with them. Their cost! Well, there is that, and the fact that it’s not so easy to load up a box of ammunition for them. Most everything I have I can load up a box of ammunition for. These days, I’m mainly a collector, and the hunter/shooter in me has faded but won’t fade away completely.
Steve,
The “HECK YOU SAY”!That might be blasphemy coming on the WACA, site saying such a thing! LOL!!! 
I can understand, as several years ago, when we we’re in our prime buying and accumulating days, them three well know, and well healed collectors we’re going at it at auction, driving prices up, beyond there true value, according to many. 
Anthony
November 7, 2015
Online
Jeremy P said
@TXGUNNUT, you recognize this TGCA person? Said he was Jeff Goodson I think, he still active?
Yes, he’s a regular at the TGCA shows. I believe he lives in a suburb of Austin. A few years back he and Phillip Boulton wrote a very interesting series of articles for TGCA’s Collector magazine entitled “Survival Files”. They have done considerable research on the survival rate of collectible firearms. He’s certainly worth listening to.
Mike
Mike,
I’m hoping that, at you’re next show coming, up in April, if you can get some more thought’s on his comments, I know that I would like to hear more, and I’m sure the members here would want to hear the basis for his comments, as I find it interesting.
You reporting back, on this would be worth while.
Anthony
November 7, 2015
Online
Anthony said
Mike,I’m hoping that, at you’re next show coming, up in April, if you can get some more thought’s on his comments, I know that I would like to hear more, and I’m sure the members here would want to hear the basis for his comments, as I find it interesting.
You reporting back, on this would be worth while.
Anthony
Of course. I’ve only met him once or twice and we didn’t talk about his research. Quite honestly I didn’t put him together with his articles until yesterday. His TGCA magazine articles were based on Boulton’s research on some earlier revolvers that I have little interest in but I read enough to be impressed with their methodology. I’ve read about the gaps in the Henry serial numbers, it’s possible he’s made some progress on defining the blocks of unused numbers. Didn’t Colt have some significant gaps in their early years? I can imagine unused blocks of serial numbers is problematic for someone studying survival rates and I’ve always been curious about survival rates. I believe I have his e-mail address around here somewhere, as soon as I jar a few more brain cells into operation I’ll see it I can find it and ask him if he would care to enlighten us.
Mike
Thanks Mike,
In my opinion, you would be a great one have report back, as you’re views are very truthful and not leaning on the biased side.
Anthony
November 7, 2015
Online
Thanks for the kind words and vote of confidence, Anthony. I’m not well-schooled on Henrys or the nuts and bolts of surveys but I enjoy reading about both of them.
As luck would have it I got a prompt and detailed response from Jeff Goodson. He graciously explained that the probable production figure of 5000 Henrys came from a discussion with Vincent Rausch, president of the American Society of Arms Collectors about another collector’s work with the Henry. Here’s the short answer as I understand it. This collector had a database of around 2200 Henry serial numbers and found large blocks of unused serial numbers in every 1000 number range except 3000-4000. In my limited understanding a smaller sample will likely not reveal these widely scattered blocks of unused numbers but would reveal a missing block of thousands of serial numbers. Jeff’s current collecting efforts are elsewhere but he’s still interested in the Henry as it affects the guns he collects today.
As a side note Jeff advised me the series of videos containing the video linked above was a casualty of YouTube’s unfortunate aversion to gun videos. Maybe YouTube will wake up and smell the coffee and we’ll get to see the remaining videos in the series someday. He mentioned another article on rarity he wrote for the TGCA magazine that I’ll need to find and review.
Hopefully I’ll get a chance to visit with Mr. Goodson at our April TGCA show. Jeff is a WACA member, maybe he’ll drop by for a visit someday.
Mike
It’s extremely likely New Haven Arms made a gun for every serial number. With the Civil War raging I imagine demand was high with foreign and domestic customers alike. I can see shipments, maybe even large shipments being lost on land or sea. So just because a collector has a 16% data base with gaps doesn’t mean they weren’t manufactured, just means we only know the surveyed guns exist. T/R
TR said
It’s extremely likely New Haven Arms made a gun for every serial number. With the Civil War raging I imagine demand was high with foreign and domestic customers alike. I can see shipments, maybe even large shipments being lost on land or sea. So just because a collector has a 16% data base with gaps doesn’t mean they weren’t manufactured, just means we only know the surveyed guns exist. T/R
Concur!!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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