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The FUTURE of the Winchester collecting hobby...
September 1, 2013
12:34 pm
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Posted in new forum, as per Bert's request. Thanks!

mrcvs

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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:57 pm Post subject: The FUTURE of the Winchester collecting hobby...

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Well, not just Winchesters, but antique firearms, in general...

What do YOU think will happen in a generation or two? I mean, are younger generations getting interested in the hobby? Is it feasible for them to even become interested in the hobby due to inflated/overinflated prices?

I became interested in the hobby at a relatively young age because I could afford above-average examples of Winchesters with sacrifice, but not tons of it. If it takes the younger generation years to afford a decent example of a Winchester, will they become interested? I know that if I had become interested in Winchesters but to afford a decent example would take 5 or 10 yrs of sacrifice, I quickly would become disinterested.

So, what are your thoughts? I see lots of grey haired folks walking around gun shows. I think this, plus the constant barrage by the liberal-minded media blasting the youth of this country does not bode well for the hobby. Your thoughts?

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mrcvs

Joined: 22 Sep 2011
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:01 pm Post subject:

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Sorry...this went under the wrong heading!!! Can a moderator move this to the Winchester Rifles section? Much thanks!

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94shorties

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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:22 pm Post subject: collecting

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mrcvs
Reguardless of where you posted it, the point I have discussed with other members on the forum is, a lot of us grew up watching Western Movies and got to know Winchester rifles. That has not happened for most of the younger generations. They all know the AK-47 & M-16. That is why I have doubts about future Winchester collectors. My 2 cents worth.

Paul

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mrcvs

Joined: 22 Sep 2011
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject:

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I posted this NOT knowing what others would think, and (unfortunately ), you agree! Sad, really... I actually was born after the heyday of Westerns but still had an interest. I think I was interested in my first deer rifle and noted that, once you got beyond the fact that it was not 'new' WHERE post_id = you could, in those days (mid-1980's), get an original .32 Special Winchester 1894 for the same price, or maybe even less, than a new-in-box Winchester 1894. I remember shooting that rifle the first time...and after getting good at it, realizing that it could punch a really small group at a short distance. And the workmanship was second to none, unlike the new junk out there! And, I thought, what a piece of history. Warren G Harding was in the White House when this was made! (Due to faulty data out there at the time, it actually pre-dates Harding's administration, dating to 1920.) So, I was hooked!

Perhaps all this stuff out there, in 2050 or so, will be begging for takers.

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JWM94

Joined: 24 May 2012
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Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject:

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I don't see a problem as long as the gun grabbers are kept at bay.

James

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September 1, 2013
4:55 pm
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People collect a zillion different things. Myself I collect

Model airplane magazines (I have over 4800 dating from 1939 to 1996)
Model Airplane engines (I have a dozen pre 1970 engines)
Aviation Serials (Think hardie boy books with an aviation theme very popular during WWII)
LPs (I have over 2600 LP records mostly classic rock)
CD's (Over 500)
Cassettes (over 450)
7" Reel to Reel Tapes (about 200)
Photography books
Nature books
Military history books
Vintage Stereo Equipment (mostly 1973-1985 Pioneer equipment)
Cameras (Mostly 35mm and mostly Canon)
Firearms
Silverton Oregon memorabilia
Western and Mountain Man art

And I have 1/2 dozen hobbies.

And theres younger people right behind me on all of it.

September 1, 2013
5:52 pm
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I have been collecting Winchesters off and on for 40 years and more seriously for the past 20 years as income permitted. During this time I have noticed that more old Winchesters have become more available
as the old time collectors have sold off their collections or died and their
widows have disposed of them.When I first got serious 92s just could not be found and I have since added 21 of them to my collection.

Back in about 1994 when mandatory registration of long guns became mandatory in Canada a lot of collectors gave up and sold their collections
in the US at a time when our dollar was 25 to 30% under the value of the Us dollar and Lucky Americans were able to buy beautiful old collections for a pitttance. Most of those collectors will never collect again thanks to our Liberal Government of the time.

I have watched as the Winchester Collectors world has gotten smaller and smaller to the point that most of us in Canada know each other or have heard of each other on a first name basis. I feel it is probably the same in the US.
I f we can interest the younger crowd in Winchesters and help them to
start with the affordable and very nice pump 22s and the newer 94s and progress and upgrade there is till a lot of room for young collectors to get interested.

I understand that there is a new book in the making on the model 95 and there is a great opportunity for new collectors in that model as it is now
not much appreciated and the new information should help boost interest in the 95.Another area understated is the "Offshoots" like the 53, 55,64 and 65 and 71 , some of which are quite rare and affordable.
One other point before I close is that the Older collectors need to conciously start to promote the newer models and get the collectors in general collecting models after WWll in an area that young people can afford.We all need a starting point.
So if we all do our part and bring someone new into the hobby I think it will survive for a long long time .
Dont leave your entire collection to a son but rather 2 or three that he has admired and perhaps has fired and has a longing to assemble his own collection. Leave all of your books for him.

Just my 2 cents worth .

Wayne

September 2, 2013
5:21 am
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Wayne

I enjoyed reading your perspective and the informative post.

I'd consider myself younger than most other collectors I know or guys I see at the shows. I've only met a couple of guys younger than me who are really interested in learning about the old guns at all. I've been fortunate to meet some older collectors who are willing to teach and also still interested in learning new things. Like everyone, I've met a few who aren't, and frankly are out to skin sheep.

I'm the youngest in a big family and no one else in it collects anything. I think there will be others who develop the same interests on their own too. Maybe it will be the person who inherits a few and gets interested in finding more.

Brad

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Brad Dunbar

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September 2, 2013
11:59 am
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My Grandfather brought me to many gun shows and I was with him on several occasions when he "made a deal." We hunted together, fished together, and spent a lot of time discussing old guns with other"old timers." I have eleven,yes 11! children and several of them like to collect Winchesters as well. I owe my interest to a great man, my Grampa!

September 4, 2013
12:24 pm
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My job requires that I interact with a very large number of 15 to 23 year-olds each year. I also have 6 children who I've tried to interest in collecting Winchesters. What I observe is that collecting anything is extremely rare in this age group. They are growing up in a very shallow world of texting, Pintrest, Facebook and other social media, together with computer gaming. I collect in a few areas besides old Winchesters (early Canadian stamps, early Canadian coins, butterflies, and WWII aircraft models, mainly RAF). I do not know any young people interested in these things, even though I got my own children started in these areas when they were younger. When it comes to Winchesters, there are the additional deterrents such as more laws, and constant propaganda against guns in general. I do not foresee a rosy future for Winchester collecting, at least not as far as numbers of collectors and values go. I assume there will still be Winchester collectors in the next generation or so, but far fewer than now. As demand for collectable Winchesters decreases, so will the values. We are probably still about 20 years away from a collapse in collecting. On the other hand, I see a greatly increased interest among young men for the so-called 'Black guns' and prepping. Perhaps it is a harbinger of the future.

September 4, 2013
6:33 pm
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One of my brothers did put together a nice 1/32 de Havilland Mosquito when I was about eight or so. I mostly built WWII German armor.

Right now I think there is a large group seeking alternatives in gun collecting. What I mean by that is many Winchester lever guns are just to expensive to them. Marlins might be too. So they may have gone to Savage, but regionally nice Savages can be scarce too. I talked to a long time collector about this a few months ago and he thought people on a budget would turn to some of the Remingtons. There are still certain later Winchesters that guys buy that aren't as pricey as the older guns. As prices rise for anything more people seek alternatives. If there is a correction it may drop prices, but lower prices on those guns might suddenly be seen as good value and the demand will rise again. That's just one thought I have on it anyway. Like you mentioned Kirk, I would guess there would be an initial softening of the values when a bunch of large collections start coming up for sale and there just isn't the interest out there. Maybe there will be some more Western movies, or better yet, some books and movies geared to that 15-23 year old age group.

I did get my 20 something nephew into shooting a lever action rifle for the first time this year and I think he liked it a lot. He had never shot a rifle before. There's hope.

Brad

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Brad Dunbar

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September 4, 2013
9:51 pm
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Ive noticed over the past two or three years that the earlier pump action, single shot, and semi-auto 22 caliber rifles have been in higher demand, driving prices on some of these to double or even triple in price (Winchesters, Remingtons, Stevens, Browning, and the like). I think there is a general desire to collect but the budget will only allow so much, thats why your seeing prices rise on these small caliber rifles. When I go to these shows like Tulsa or others, I have to keep in mind that there is a selective crowd that has the means to buy your high end gun but the vast majority dont. I tend to focus more on the mid-range or lower range guns to cater to the folks who have an interest in Winchesters but are of modest means, broadening my potential buyer base. I quit taking guns to the local shows because I figured that less than 10-15% of the people who came in the door had an interest in Winchesters, and fewer than that were willing to lay money on the table for one, plus the shows around here have turned into flea markets.

Im uncertain of what the future holds, the gun market is like a pendulum swing, the prices rise and fall over time. I still think some of the higher end gun prices are overinflated, while at the same time other rarer guns have taken a hit. It seems that more of the higher end guns are being traded amongst collectors at some of these shows than are being paid for outright with cash. I think its a reflection of our current economy. The folks who have money will continue to buy and collect while others who no longer have the disposable income to pursue the hobby find other alternatives.

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September 5, 2013
5:58 am
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If we think about it over the past 8 to 10 years a lot of the older collections have changed hands due to men getting older and a lot of them dying and this trend will continue as nature takes its course.

I was in Real Estate for the last 20 years of my working life and some of the stats form there also seem to apply to Winchester collectors, For instance 80% of Realtors make 20% of the money and 20% make 80% of the money. I am happy to say I was in the 20%.

It just may be that the same applies to Winchester collecting . 80% of collectors are lower condition collectors and 20% of collectors have the higher condition Winchesters. This probably also applies to buyers at
Winchester shows . Think about it as you attend shows and as you buy and sell. BTW I am definitely in the 80% in this field.

Wayne

September 5, 2013
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[quote=

Right now I think there is a large group seeking alternatives in gun collecting. What I mean by that is many Winchester lever guns are just too expensive to them. Marlins might be too. So they may have gone to Savage, but regionally nice Savages can be scarce too. I talked to a long time collector about this a few months ago and he thought people on a budget would turn to some of the Remingtons. There are still certain later Winchesters that guys buy that aren't as pricey as the older guns. As prices rise for anything more people seek alternatives. If there is a correction it may drop prices, but lower prices on those guns might suddenly be seen as good value and the demand will rise again. That's just one thought I have on it anyway.[/quote]

This is certainly the case with me. I used to like to collect Winchester 1886's and first generation Colt Single Action Army revolvers. Now, with the ay things are, it is a bit of a stretch to get even a nice Winchester 1894, and, lately, Smith & Wessons and pre-1898 Colt 1895 revolvers have appeal, simply because of the cost. I know of a beautiful Marlin 1893 with lots of features and with condition in .32 Special for sale, and it is tempting, because of the price. A comparable Winchester would be, at least, 2X or 3X the price.

September 6, 2013
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The Winchester 9422's, and 9417's seem to have a good following. Perhaps they appeal to the younger crowd, and are more affordable for now. Although it seems the prices of these are escalating.

Al

September 6, 2013
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If a republican candidate is elected in 2016. I do believe there will be a massive down turn in pricing for ammunition and modern firearms. Or at least I hope so.

Maverick

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September 6, 2013
11:24 am
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I would say "yes", right now you have all the panic buying going on because of Obama driving up ammo prices. I did hear something about some Dems wanting to substantially increase the tax on ammo and components.

Bob

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October 15, 2013
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This story (in my opinion) pretty much illustrates what this thread is about:
In my search for the 'perfect' Model 64, I came across a very reasonably-priced example, 1939 vintage, complete with its Lyman 56 rear sight.
(The rifle was being sold by the original purchaser's grandson.)
Grandpa had bought this gun new, used it sparingly, and properly stored it before he went off to WW II.
He didn't come back.
The next generation wasn't a 'gun guy' WHERE post_id = so the rifle stayed in storage at grandma's house.
Fast-forward to grandma's death last year...
The grandson was selling the Model 64 and a nice shotgun, in order to fund the purchase of two Glock pistols, one for him and one for his brother.
He seemed to be real interested in shooting sports, but had absolutely no interest in "...old guns...".
The 64 is pretty close to new, and I was tickled to get it.
Go figure...
Don
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October 15, 2013
10:52 am
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Don, I'm glad that Model 64 is now in the hands of someone who appreciates it.

October 18, 2013
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I just picked up my first winchester 1894 and it's nothing special(collector wise), but is 114yrs old. I would like to consider myself in the "younger generation" at 32yrs old. I do agree with most of your posts that my and the younger still generation are way to caught up in "the latest, greatest, fastest and shiniest". Even if it is complete crap.

AR's are the perfect example, everyone running around trying to put the best and latest gadget on them making them into gypsie wagon guns. I own 3 AR's and they are all top of the line fantastic shooters, with nothing but a sight on them. I shoot alot of 3 gun competition and spent many a year in the military.

However, personally I think there is something extreemly cool about shooting a 114yr old gun that still works and drives tacks. I don't really care about collectability, I like the history and feel of a true quality built firearm that has stood the test of time, still finctions properly and will easily outlive me.

So to all you old guys!! Yes there is hope!

I'm also the guy that bought a Harley when I was 23 and had to ride with all the older guys because all the idiots my age have crotch rockets.

If any of you would like to donate to a young collector I will happily forward you my address and that of my FFL!!!

Regards,

Todd

October 18, 2013
8:56 am
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xshadowx999 said
... personally I think there is something extremely cool about shooting a 114yr old gun that still works and drives tacks. ... I like the history and feel of a true quality built firearm that has stood the test of time, still finctions properly and will easily outlive me.

Well, Todd. I think that pretty much sums up why a lot of us like these old Winchesters. I sold all my modern rifles (with one exception) and used the funds toward a very modest collection of my favourite old Winchester models and calibers.

October 20, 2013
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I am in mid 60's and have a son who is 25 . I taught him to shoot starting at 5. He has been to GS with me all over the middle of this great country. Yes he like the evil black guns but he loves to shoot the old classics too. He also doesn't have the income as he's blue collar and works hard. I know there are many like him who are just learning and it takes years to know what they need to keep from getting stung. We need to work with the younger generation and offer to take them shooting and get them past the BS they learn at school.

October 21, 2013
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So to all you old guys!! Yes there is hope!

I'm also the guy that bought a Harley when I was 23 and had to ride with all the older guys because all the idiots my age have crotch rockets.

If any of you would like to donate to a young collector I will happily forward you my address and that of my FFL!!!

Regards,

Todd[/quote]

Well Todd,
I am sure there are some old guys that don't have anybody to let their Winchesters to when they pass on. Also they would probably like to see their passion passed on to someone that would appreciate the History of the Winchester. That's what I enjoy about Winchesters, the fact that you could go to the hardware store and buy the standard model off the shelf or wait for the salesman to come around and special order exactly what you wanted.

So there is hope that you might get that one special ordered Winchester from a old guy collector.

Enjoy the Winchester collecting.

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October 22, 2013
2:22 pm
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I believe there will still be interest in collecting Winchesters.How ever as the price of the older Winchesters increase in price ,there will come a point when it will be just those among us who have deeper pockets who will be able to afford the older models.At that time and it could be getting closer very fast(just look at the prices now being asked for just a common carbine pre 64 Model 94 .30-30)the fellow who is interested in Winchesters,but cannot afford the cost of the older models will start to look at the affordable post 64 Winchesters in a much better light than us older Winchester fans do.

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