Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
Was wondering why no one commented on the RIA Auction for this rifle–it went for $152,750.00. I could not find the original post–Bill
Here is the link.
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/1886-40-express/
I just clicked on the button for posts that you posted in. Very useful for finding ones old posts
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
426crown said
Was wondering why no one commented on the RIA Auction for this rifle–it went for $152,750.00. I could not find the original post–Bill
I still wonder if the ledger should have said 40-75? Like Bert said the longer 40 EX is too long for the 86 action. And like Maverick posted there was a 40-75 Express load for the 86.
Chuck said
426crown said
Was wondering why no one commented on the RIA Auction for this rifle–it went for $152,750.00. I could not find the original post–Bill
I still wonder if the ledger should have said 40-75? Like Bert said the longer 40 EX is too long for the 86 action. And like Maverick posted there was a 40-75 Express load for the 86.
The 40 EX cartridge (a.k.a. 40-110) has a 3.25″ long cartridge case. It would be very interesting to get a casting of the chamber of the subject rifle. Is it a 40-70 WCF with a lighter weight bullet (hence the “express”), or some variant of the 40-82 WCF ? My guess would be the 40-70 WCF with a lighter bullet.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
$152,750! For that kind of money, there should be someone skilled enough to create an exact replica of this barrel to affix to a rifle on the non letterable range such that it matches the remainder of the rifle EXACTLY. For far less money, pocket the difference. Which might be sizable if RIA fabricates a good yarn to go along with the rifle.
But I didn’t say that.
SHHHHHH! Stop giving away trade secrets on here!
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
To me what is insane is that it hammered simply based off what the letter states without any proof as to what the actual chamber dimensions are. That part makes no logical sense to me. You’re spending six figures on a gamble that the rifle is chambered in a possible rare caliber with no proof that the barrel is cut / chambered in said caliber. Along with the fact that there are no physical examples of a said cartridge in 40-95 express having been made by Winchester.
That is a lot of money for a factory clerical error.
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick said
SHHHHHH! Stop giving away trade secrets on here!
I am totally serious about this.
By our exacting standards on this forum, we would probably, but not necessarily, be able to identify a faked 40 Express rifle. But, time and time again, it has been more than proven that what we think really doesn’t matter. If we call foul, the Big Dollar bidders at RIA either don’t read this forum, or choose to ignore it. Truth be told, we are small potatoes!
So, for that kind of money, one could easily locate a .45-70 rifle that does not have a letter on it, and remove the barrel and replicate the one on this rifle exactly. 90% is already there, it’s just matching the other 10%. It just has to look right. An elaborate yarn only helps things. It doesn’t have to even chamber a .40 Express round. Who would even know that it’s a non functional rifle. A few grand should easily get you a plausible replication, matching the finish of the remainder of the rifle, matching all fonts and markings on the barrel, etc. It doesn’t have to be perfect. Many less than perfect rifles have sold for big bucks at RIA over the years!
KA CHING! All the way to the bank! Congratulations! You just made $100k+.
It isn’t me doing this, I’ll not participate in such skullduggery, but, mark my words, it’s only a matter of time before a fake such as I describe surfaces.
JEEZ, I have a few rifles with ledger entry “typos”, I sure do wish I could get that kind of money for a clerical error, but then there might be a whole lot more of ’em. And some are almost impossible to decipher, like this one.
. One could interpret the ledger entry, to be inconsistant with the gun, or the letter. I know the gun is correct, but then I am holding on to it, (in My hands). I have ’94’s and ’86’s that don’t mention the features like pistol grip checkered stocks in the ledger, but know the gun is correct and has to be an omission or “typo” in the ledger. I don’t know with 100% certainty if the R.I.A. gun is correct or is a ledger entry “typo”, but either way it’s way out of My financial rhealm.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
mrcvs said
I am totally serious about this.
So, for that kind of money, one could easily locate a .45-70 rifle that does not have a letter on it, and remove the barrel and replicate the one on this rifle exactly. 90% is already there, it’s just matching the other 10%. It just has to look right. An elaborate yarn only helps things. It doesn’t have to even chamber a .40 Express round. Who would even know that it’s a non functional rifle. A few grand should easily get you a plausible replication, matching the finish of the remainder of the rifle, matching all fonts and markings on the barrel, etc. It doesn’t have to be perfect. Many less than perfect rifles have sold for big bucks at RIA over the years!
KA CHING! All the way to the bank! Congratulations! You just made $100k+.
I assume this is ALREADY happening, more than any of us might care to imagine. Luckily for me, as a man of meager means, I am not the one buying or even considering the purchase of these top dollar Winchesters. But as the market for high condition Winchester rarities already exists, it would be reasonable to conclude, as mrcvs does, that someone, somewhere, is cranking them out.
BRP
November 7, 2015
Offline
I totally agree, BRP. I’m no expert but I have no doubt there are fakes out there that will fool most experts. Simple law of supply and demand. The demand certainly exists for high-condition, high-grade guns; there are a limited number of genuine examples extant and the prices paid certainly make it lucrative to create a few more. Unfortunately the current owner/seller may have no knowledge of the fakery.
Mike
TXGunNut said
I totally agree, BRP. I’m no expert but I have no doubt there are fakes out there that will fool most experts. Simple law of supply and demand. The demand certainly exists for high-condition, high-grade guns; there are a limited number of genuine examples extant and the prices paid certainly make it lucrative to create a few more. Unfortunately the current owner/seller may have no knowledge of the fakery.Mike
Just follow the trail of the fake 1of 1000 73 sold by Poulin last year. I believe the real one was owned by John Fox. At least they had the balls to state it was fake. Still hammered at over $40K. Never going to end as long as there is greed!
oldcrankyyankee said
TXGunNut said
I totally agree, BRP. I’m no expert but I have no doubt there are fakes out there that will fool most experts. Simple law of supply and demand. The demand certainly exists for high-condition, high-grade guns; there are a limited number of genuine examples extant and the prices paid certainly make it lucrative to create a few more. Unfortunately the current owner/seller may have no knowledge of the fakery.
Mike
Just follow the trail of the fake 1of 1000 73 sold by Poulin last year. I believe the real one was owned by John Fox. At least they had the balls to state it was fake. Still hammered at over $40K. Never going to end as long as there is greed!
Yankee, is there a thread to follow or more info on that one? I’d like to read it
Mike has just reiterated one of the basic principles of free markets: Where demand exists, supply will rise [in one way or another] to meet that demand.
Does anybody think we are “winning the war on drugs?”
Have the Canadians taxed cigarettes out of existence?
Willy Stark. the old [fictional] governor of Louisiana put it best
“THE FLIES WILL GATHER AT CHURNING TIME.”
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Found the SN Check. SN applied 10/31/88, Rifle 40-95, Oct Barrel, plain Trigger, Shipped 11/19, 1888
R&R 3/16/1891
Bill
Jeremy P said
oldcrankyyankee said
TXGunNut said
I totally agree, BRP. I’m no expert but I have no doubt there are fakes out there that will fool most experts. Simple law of supply and demand. The demand certainly exists for high-condition, high-grade guns; there are a limited number of genuine examples extant and the prices paid certainly make it lucrative to create a few more. Unfortunately the current owner/seller may have no knowledge of the fakery.
Mike
Just follow the trail of the fake 1of 1000 73 sold by Poulin last year. I believe the real one was owned by John Fox. At least they had the balls to state it was fake. Still hammered at over $40K. Never going to end as long as there is greed!
Yankee, is there a thread to follow or more info on that one? I’d like to read it
Don’t remember a thread on it. If your more handy with these stupid gonculators than I you can try navigating Poulins past auctions, I tried and lost my mind in doing so. I’m very sure thats where I saw it. The story as I heard it from a fellow collector was that gun was so realistic it actually was floating around for years until the real one popped up. Like I said I believe it was John Fox that owned the real one and supposedly the only thing that gave it away was the font of the single number 1 in the serial number. Now this may be nothing but an old wives tale but…. It was called out in the auction listing. Have no idea of the number of hands it had been thru before being outed, but clearly it was around a long time. Of course I must state I am not an authority on this. Simply a layman that talks to some other collectors. So if I am wrong, blame them, LMAO
1 Guest(s)
