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Winchester 1886 - barrel defect
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February 7, 2021 - 11:17 pm
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I recently bought at auction a Winchester 1886 in 40-82, octagon barrel, sight unseen. The bore was described as “Even the bore is surprisingly bright and fine, with good rifling all the way through”. However, after receiving this rifle and inspecting the bore, I saw a circle in the bore about 7 inches in from the muzzle. It is not cosmetic. When I put a jag through, with a patch I can definitely feel the circle. It feels like the bore changes diameter. There is no bulge on the outer surface of the octagon barrel.  

From past experience, I believe there is no chance of returning this to the auction house, even if they didn’t describe it correctly. 

My question: has anybody experienced this in a Winchester barrel? Any ideas on what could have caused it?

Thank you for your input.

Richard

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February 7, 2021 - 11:22 pm
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I can’t say for sure but it could be a rust/corrosion ring or it could have been caused by over pressure???  Have a gunsmith look at it before you shoot it.

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February 7, 2021 - 11:46 pm
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Richard, what you’re describing is commonly called a ring, & not only does it pose no danger in shooting, but it probably has little effect on accuracy, unless quite near the muzzle.  I think 7″ is far enough to minimize the effect.  Could have been caused by a cleaning patch left in the bore, or some other minor obstruction–the brl steel is really pretty soft.  Of course, you SHOULD have been informed about it, but if you’re otherwise satisfied with the gun, I wouldn’t loose too much sleep over it.  But you certainly should give that auction house a choice reaming!

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February 7, 2021 - 11:55 pm
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 Richard, When I buy a rifle, I point the barrel at a light and sight down it as I turn it. The reflection of the light on the outside of the barrel shows any waves in the surface. This allows me to see a barrel splice or bulge. If you push a patch thru the barrel and it feels easy for a instant, it’s a bulge, if it feels hard for a instant it’s a splice. If your talking about a line lengthwise in the bore, it’s a forging line caused by layers of steel when manufacturing. If your gun still has blue on the barrel, does it have blue continuity, that is original matching blue the full length of the barrel with no interruption or change in color. If your gun does not have blue on the barrel the bulge could have been draw filed out and colored, a bulge or splice is not acceptable, a forging line is acceptable. T/R

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February 8, 2021 - 12:25 am
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The other thing check if you have a lined barrel. Some guys use pencil liners which are real thin and when they drill the bore out the bit can start to wander to the side so they drill from the other end but you are left with a void. If incorrectly installed the gun is fired with a new liner, the liner will fire form to the void.

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February 8, 2021 - 1:06 am
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Speculation about the cause of the defect won’t help the man get his money back.  If the gun is capable of reasonable accuracy–let’s say 3 MOA–I’d give it no further thought, except to remember not to trust that auction house.  (I don’t trust any of them.)  If not, then is the time to consider what remedy is available, if he wishes to keep the gun, such as installing a liner.

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February 8, 2021 - 1:54 am
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 Richard, This is the kind of gun that’s tricky to sell. If you don’t disclose the flaw the buyer will go threw the same pain as you. I would take some pictures and post them until you get to the bottom of the problem. If the problem is objectionable call the auction company and ask for relief. If they’re unreasonable tell the Forum of your experience. Was this gun priced right or was it a bargain that wasn’t? T/R

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February 8, 2021 - 2:27 am
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TR said
 If the problem is objectionable call the auction company and ask for relief.

This is what he already said:

“From past experience, I believe there is no chance of returning this to the auction house, even if they didn’t describe it correctly.”

Not that he shouldn’t make his dissatisfaction known, as I previously said. 

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February 8, 2021 - 4:30 am
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The gun was not as described. A cursory check revealed a ring. A ring is often caused by an over pressure event and the barrel could be weakened. A subsequent buyer is likely to notice the ring and Richard is likely to disclose it. I would make every effort to return the rifle, unfired and unaltered, to the auction house. I agree that a ring may not affect firing but I can guarantee that it will affect the value if I am aware of it. 

 

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February 8, 2021 - 1:34 pm
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 I had a 40-82 that had a piece of shell casing left in the barrel following firing a round with a cannelure ring in it. I noticed the case was short and did not fire again, no damage done.

 First Richard has to find out what’s wrong with his barrel. Does he know for a fact that’s it’s a ring? Can he inspect it with a bore-a-scope? Will we hear from Richard again? T/R

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February 8, 2021 - 3:42 pm
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Critical question–did he get a good, or even a fair, deal?  Skeptical about that, because it obviously was an on-line auction, but not entirely impossible.  I once bought a plain-Jane Model 52 in so-so cond. at a very good price at a small local gunshow.  Bore looked perfect, but later discovered a ring.  Decided to shoot it before throwing a fit, did so, & found it shot 1 MOA with iron sights.  I knew the dealer casually, & next time I saw him 6 mos later, told him about the ring, knowledge of which he denied–said he never cleaned it, which is plausible, but I have a sneaking suspicion he knew.  But I didn’t ask him to take the gun back, because even with the ring, it was still a good deal.

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February 11, 2021 - 12:00 pm
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I thank all who took the time to comment. I have sent pictures to the auction house, and said I wanted to return the gun, but received no response. The auction house is – North American Auction Company out of Bozeman, MT. I paid $3,000 including the buyer premium, so it wasn’t a “bargain”, in my opinion.

It almost looks like a bullet was lodged it the barrel at that point? There is no bulging on the exterior of the barrel.

 

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February 11, 2021 - 1:49 pm
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Considering the location the bore obstruction could have been mud.

 

Mike

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February 11, 2021 - 1:52 pm
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How about photographs of the rest of the rifle?

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February 11, 2021 - 1:55 pm
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TXGunNut said
Considering the location the bore obstruction could have been mud.

 

Mike  

That is kinda what I was thinking. Maybe someone tried “Shooting it Out”, or marred it up with a tool trying to remove it. Either way, you’d think a auction company would notice something like this. Almost like they didn’t even look down the barrel.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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February 11, 2021 - 2:03 pm
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Richard Pike said

It almost looks like a bullet was lodged it the barrel at that point?

  

Not a typical ring at all.  Possibly a lodged bullet, but odd that damage isn’t concentric.  Looks to be within 2″ of muzzle–the worst place to have any sort of bore damage.  This should have been noticed even with the slap-dash inspections typical of auction houses.

Was it your intention to shoot this gun, or hunt with it? 

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February 11, 2021 - 2:10 pm
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Maverick said

That is kinda what I was thinking. Maybe someone tried “Shooting it Out”, or marred it up with a tool trying to remove it. Either way, you’d think a auction company would notice something like this. Almost like they didn’t even look down the barrel.

 

Are there dirt-dauber wasps in Mont?  No kidding, where I live they will plug any hole they take a liking to in a few hours time.  But their nests are easily knocked apart, being hollow, & wouldn’t require pounding on with a rod to remove.

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February 11, 2021 - 2:16 pm
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  Richard, Now we know it is a ring and North American Auction Company will not take it back. I’m sorry it’s not what you thought but appreciate the heads up on North American.

 In today’s market buying a gun without inspecting first or having return privileges is a poor bet. We all have made mistakes, I’ve made a lot worse ones than yours. You can line the barrel, you can replace the barrel, or you live with it. In all cases it will never be worth what you thought it was when you bid. Spending more money on a mistake just makes a bigger mistake. If you sell without disclosing the defect the new owner will feel the same pain as you did.

 If you post good pictures of the gun including serial numbers on this Forum, the gun and it’s problems become public knowledge. Maybe not in your best interest. If it shoots straight keep it as is. When you decide to sell disclose the flaw and take the loss. T/R

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February 11, 2021 - 2:43 pm
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I can see there is a ring farther back in beyond the mag tube retainer.

Bob

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February 11, 2021 - 3:26 pm
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TR said
  If it shoots straight keep it as is. 

It may not be as bad as it looks, though such damage right at the muzzle would not inspire my optimism.  Of course, there’s only way to move beyond speculation, & that’s by shooting.

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