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Here are some pictures of this 1886 serial #27504 which makes it an antique. All of the pre-1898 86’s had case harden receivers. Other than the bore, I believe it is in good condition for a rifle over 130 years old. The screws are in good condition, The wood is in good shape. I thioght I made a good deal until I saw the circle in the bore.
A few have remarked that I should shoot it to see if the accuracy has been hurt. However, finding 40-82 ammo is not easy. The collectible stuff that $8-$10 a round is too expensive to shoot.
The barrel has been worked on but to what extent you would have to post more picture. The caliber stamp is not original.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Richard, I don’t think that gun is worth spending any more money on. The wood is under size, metal is cold blue and smooze, wrong sights, and the barrel markings look small. It’s worth half what you paid. Like I said before, I’ve made bigger mistakes than that. Learn from it and get help before you buy. Have the members on the Forum critique the gun before you buy. T/R
Richard Pike said
A few have remarked that I should shoot it to see if the accuracy has been hurt. However, finding 40-82 ammo is not easy. The collectible stuff that $8-$10 a round is too expensive to shoot.
Well, of course! It’s strictly a handloading proposition, using hard to find cases, custom dies, etc. But if you weren’t counting on going into all that, buying it strictly as a collector’s item, in other words, cond of the bore doesn’t matter anyway.
TR said
The wood is under size, metal is cold blue and smooze, wrong sights, and the barrel markings look small. It’s worth half what you paid.
That’s letting the man down easy! But he wouldn’t have paid what he did if other bidders hadn’t also been taken in.
oneclarence said
TR said
The wood is under size, metal is cold blue and smooze, wrong sights, and the barrel markings look small. It’s worth half what you paid.That’s letting the man down easy! But he wouldn’t have paid what he did if other bidders hadn’t also been taken in.
Clarence, He could have been bidding against himself, unless you see the other bidder how do you know. The big auction houses state it in the Terms and Conditions of sale, “may implement that reserve by bidding on behalf of the consignor”. Find out what the idem is worth before bidding starts. Post the link and ask the questions. Don’t worry that someone else might bid on the gun. There’s so many guns for sale if you miss one you’ll get the next.
As for letting the man down easy, we’ve all been there and it is, what it is. T/R
1873man said
The barrel has been worked on but to what extent you would have to post more picture. The caliber stamp is not original.Bob
Yeah I noticed that as well. If you look closely you can see were each number/letter was individually stamped. The ‘W’ and ‘C’ even bounced and made a slight double stamp. The original caliber markings were applied all together at the same time and not individually stamped.
If the replacement barrel is a shooter, it would be fine to have some plinking fun and/or you don’t have to worry about taking it hunting.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
I figure you have a bulge in the barrel and the outside has been worked down and removed the obvious signs.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Maverick said
If you look closely you can see were each number/letter was individually stamped. The ‘W’ and ‘C’ even bounced and made a slight double stamp.
I didn’t look at the magnified image until just now, but the crude hand stamping is so obvious that even the auction house crooks can make no excuse for missing it.
This fraud would almost make me mad enough to hire a lawyer, except that I know it would be sink me even deeper into the hole.
Thank you to all who provided comments. I learned a lot, mostly don’t buy unless you know what you are buying! I appreciate everyone sharing their knowledge.
Story of my success “buy high sell low”!
Richard
Richard Pike said
Story of my success “buy high sell low”!
Yes, but you can’t claim that as original, Richard–I’ve been operating on that system all my life.
clarence said
Richard Pike said
Story of my success “buy high sell low”!
Yes, but you can’t claim that as original, Richard–I’ve been operating on that system all my life.
Add me to the list of those who have bought high and sold low. I try not to make snap decisions now days. One of the things I don’t like about auctions.
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
Richard Pike said
I thank all who took the time to comment. I have sent pictures to the auction house, and said I wanted to return the gun, but received no response. The auction house is – North American Auction Company out of Bozeman, MT. I paid $3,000 including the buyer premium, so it wasn’t a “bargain”, in my opinion.It almost looks like a bullet was lodged it the barrel at that point? There is no bulging on the exterior of the barrel.
Has it been completely ruled out that the rifle could be returned?
Not that I am recommending this, but I’ve seen other rifles like this that have had serious bore damage fairly close to the end of the muzzle. For a rifle that is purely a shooter, I’ve seen where the owner has had the bore counterbored an inch or three (just to get past the damage area). Hence, concern about the impact of the damaged area on the bullet is eliminated.
Steve,
I don’t think you are going to counter bore 7″ since that is were the ring is. If it were mine and I was stuck with it, I would have it lined and make it into a good shooter and maybe think of changing the caliber while I was doing it.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
If it were mine and I was stuck with it, I would have it lined and make it into a good shooter and maybe think of changing the caliber while I was doing it.
Good idea–there’s no “originality” left to preserve, & shooting any .40 requires extra aggravation in acquiring cases, dies, even bullets. But .45-70 is smooth sailing in every way, & a superior cartridge to boot. First ’86 I ever had (bought out of a pawn shop when I was in High-school) was a .40-something rebored to .45-70. Also easier to resell.
Would be wise to compare cost of reboring vs. a new replacement brl.:
https://www.winchesterbarrels.com/store/p30/1886barrelsforsale.html
1873man said
Steve,I don’t think you are going to counter bore 7″ since that is were the ring is. If it were mine and I was stuck with it, I would have it lined and make it into a good shooter and maybe think of changing the caliber while I was doing it.
Bob
I didn’t realize the problem was that far into the barrel. Actually, I like the .45-70 rebore idea the best.
I’m surprised that it wasn’t a 45-70 already. Most faked 86’s turn into 45-70’s. I would not spend any money on this gun until a gunsmith looked at it or I shot it once. Who knows, it may be OK left alone?
Chuck said
I’m surprised that it wasn’t a 45-70 already. Most faked 86’s turn into 45-70’s. I would not spend any money on this gun until a gunsmith looked at it or I shot it once. Who knows, it may be OK left alone?
I agree, & have previously said so, but how would a gunsmith be able to tell Richard anything more than anyone here without shooting it? (The average gunsmith would know LESS about the gun & cartridge than most of us here.) Problem is going to be acquiring the cartridges, good, fresh, handloads. Is there a source for them, like someone here who reloads for that cartridge? Wouldn’t make sense to buy cases & dies without knowing (by means of shooting) how badly the bore has been damaged.
I think a typical answer would be to simply purchase a box of newly made ammunition. Unfortunately, these are not typical times. The pandemic and panic-buying seems to have not spared .40-82 ammunition. Buffalo Arms has been a supplier of newly manufactured ammunition for obsolete cartridges. Unfortunately, just as one can go to various distributor websites (e.g. Midway, Natchez, Graf, Wideners) and glance at 9mm, .30-30, .32 special and ad infinitum), the result is the same – including .40-82 (OUT OF STOCK). Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised, but panic-buying seems to have hit the .40-82 as well.
Here’s what Buffalo Arms typically has available in loaded .40-82 cartridges:
Smokeless:
Black powder:
Buffalo Arms also has three options for .40-82 brass – all out of stock.
Interestingly enough, the run on .40-90 Peabody What Cheer brass cases has not been great enough to exhaust their supply – they are available – at the moment. Price is $6.19 per casing.
Online
Here’s another source to keep an eye on. I got a box of these a few months ago for my 1886 takedown that my dad gave me. I took dad to the range for his 86th birthday and put a few rounds through it. An absolute pleasure to shoot and had 1-inch groups at 100 yards with iron barrel sights.
https://www.venturamunitions.com/ventura-heritage-40-82-wcf-255gr-rnfp-ammo-20-rounds/
Don
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