oldcrankyyankee said

clarence said

mrcvs said

According to the description, it was in a scabbard for 87 years.  

“When the lid was finally removed, 87 years after being delivered new from the factory, the crate exposed a Winchester Model 1886 rifle in a lightly tooled leather scabbard, so its true beauty remained hidden a few moments longer until it was unholstered.”

The natural assumption of the workman packing the crate would have been that, if a scabbard was going to be shipped with the gun, then it would be better protection to insert the gun into it. 

To me, perhaps the weirdest part of this yarn is the story of the powder being removed from the cartridges; I can’t even imagine any plausible reason this would have been done, or that the unknown “appraiser” would have known how to do it.

  

I see no mention of those cartridges in RIA’s description. Although I have been looking at the pictures again and it surly looks like that loading gate has some wear on it from being fed those cartridges. There is wear marks on the lever also and the hammer. These stories passed down in time always seem to get a bit rusty with time. I don’t believe that crate sat unopened for 87 years, again the nail holes in crate are telling different story.  

The description is so lengthy that details get missed:

“The appraiser removed the black powder from the cartridges out of caution.”

What sort of appraiser would do that?  Not a very good one.

Here’s what I see.  Yes, this rifle has been used.  I’m just not sure if this is use from a very good restoration or original.  There is wear to the loading gate and lever.  There’s a lengthy scratch running the entire length of the left side of the magazine.  The elevator has been adjusted enough to cause wear.  There’s some grime in areas that are typical of any rifle from being wiped down regularly, with accumulation of this in crevices and areas not easily wiped.  Most telling is there is wear, if not some very minor pitting to the points of the crescent but.  This is acquired by repeatedly placing a rifle standing upright on a surface, if merely scratches, or being placed upright on a surface long enough and damp enough to cause pitting.  Hardly a rifle stored horizontally all of its existence.

Any other rifle or handgun stored in a leather scabbard or holster for a lengthy period of time displays a blemished surface, if not significant pitting.  The description here defies logic.

oldcrankyyankee said
Nice pick up on the scratch on mag tube Ian. Tells me that gun has been apart. I also think the loading gate screw has been turned, although with a proper screw driver, the edges on that screw seem “pushed” a little in the direction of being taken out.  At this point I would give the rifle a C+ and the story an F-. It will be interesting to see what it sells for, if it sells. Funny, I just noticed they don’t have a picture of the muzzle face either. 

There should be no need to turn any screw on a rifle such as this if it truly is as represented.  Good eye, and I agree, Tom, it had been turned.

i agree with your rating of the rifle and story.  C+ and F-.

This rifle would be more believable without the elaborate story and an honest description.

Regarding posts 47 and 48:

I would expect that the upper tang area would contain wood more proud to the tang than it shows.  Strongly suggests a refinish.

The very rear of the lower tang fits with the wood not as tightly as I would expect, which is unusual for a stock that has never been removed and replaced—and still I would expect a better fit here.

The serial number is weak which suggests, at the very least that it might be less bold—due to a refinish.

Too many clues point to this one being a clever refinish.

Someone with deep pockets will still pay A LOT for this one, thinking they got the best of the best.

My worst condition Model 1886, to me, is more desirable than this rifle simply because it isn’t refinished—and I despise a refinished firearm.

Note the condition of the leather in the auction listing as compared to this scabbard and shotgun case.  In the attic of a house in Connecticut built in 1910, virtually undisturbed since the original owner’s death in 1949 until removal in 2021.  Not evident is the DRY ROT of the stitching.  No firearms contained within, as they would be in a dismal state.  This is how leather would be when exposed to between 72 and 111 years of oppressively hot summers and brutally cold winters, and a wild swing in temperatures over a short period of time fairly regularly.