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Pre auction estimate of $150,000 to $275,000. And how high will it go?
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4092/13/the-marshfield-find-winchester-model-1886-rifle
Is this a little “too good to be true”? I’ll be skeptical until others’ opinions are posted….
Jeremy P said
Is this a little “too good to be true”? I’ll be skeptical until others’ opinions are posted….
It does have that look. I suppose if our group were to time travel to the year this rifle was made (1886) and look at some new Winchesters in a gun store, they would all look redone! But I too am skeptical. Sitting in an original wooden crate isn’t the same as being vacuum sealed. No effect from being exposed to air for 138 years?
It sat in an attic for how many scores of years? Seems to me attics are almost always poorly climate controlled with significant variations in temperature, humidity etc.
Jeremy P said
Is this a little “too good to be true”? I’ll be skeptical until others’ opinions are posted….
Now you know why I posted this Winchester. I wanted to see what others thought before going down that path. It doesn’t strike me as an untouched Model 1886 from 137 years ago.
Recall the thread about Winchester 1886 serial number 1?
With regards to my opening post, I really don’t care what this one sells for—for me, it’s all about a scholarly analysis.
I am not saying Turnbull did the work, if any was done, but the work looks more like Turnbull rather than authentic Winchester factory work from 1886.
steve004 said
Jeremy P said
Is this a little “too good to be true”? I’ll be skeptical until others’ opinions are posted….
It does have that look. I suppose if our group were to time travel to the year this rifle was made (1886) and look at some new Winchesters in a gun store, they would all look redone! But I too am skeptical. Sitting in an original wooden crate isn’t the same as being vacuum sealed. No effect from being exposed to air for 138 years?
It sat in an attic for how many scores of years? Seems to me attics are almost always poorly climate controlled with significant variations in temperature, humidity etc.
Right! An attic is going to be below freezing in the winter, well above 100 degrees Fahrenheit in the summer, hardly ideal storage conditions.
steve004 said
It sat in an attic for how many scores of years? Seems to me attics are almost always poorly climate controlled with significant variations in temperature, humidity etc.
I don’t know if this is the real McCoy or not, but I have stumbled across just three “attic finds” in my 50 years of collecting firearms, and all three were in terrible shape. The temperature swings and humidity changes in an attic are not conducive to the preservation of original wood or metal surfaces. Add to that the assertion that the rifle was in a leather scabbard all that time, and the chance of a rifle remaining in like-new condition seems very dubious indeed.
I would certainly not be mortgaging the house to purchase this rifle. But I am naturally a sceptic of hyperbole, and follow the old adage, “Buy the gun; NOT the story.”
BRP
steve004 said
Jeremy P said
Is this a little “too good to be true”? I’ll be skeptical until others’ opinions are posted….
It does have that look. I suppose if our group were to time travel to the year this rifle was made (1886) and look at some new Winchesters in a gun store, they would all look redone! But I too am skeptical. Sitting in an original wooden crate isn’t the same as being vacuum sealed. No effect from being exposed to air for 138 years?
It sat in an attic for how many scores of years? Seems to me attics are almost always poorly climate controlled with significant variations in temperature, humidity etc.
Exactly Steve, and the more I ponder it, the more I think of that isn’t right.
November 7, 2015
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As the description states; unbelievable. The scabbard part of the story is very troubling. I don’t know what tanning process was used on the leather but it must have been a fantastic preservative.
Mike
Blue Ridge Parson said
Add to that the assertion that the rifle was in a leather scabbard all that time, and the chance of a rifle remaining in like-new condition seems very dubious indeed.
In the humid salt-air climate of a seaport town, well beyond dubious. This fantastic fable has got to represent the zenith of all the impostures RI has ever promoted! (Or maybe not–it’s hard to keep track of them.) The obvious purpose of the Niagara of hype is distraction from a logical analysis of the truthfulness of the yarn by overwhelming the reader with irrelevant BS.
This scabbard was in an attic about the same amount of the time as the one being sold with the Model 1886 rifle in the upcoming auction. The attic would have had few visitors over the years, so the wear is not from being shuffled about. This is what leather looks like when stored in an attic, excessive heat and cold, some days probably heating up rather quickly, causing condensation to be formed (and even more so on the metal parts of a rifle). Also, although not evident, the threads experienced dry rot and had to be restitched.
The scabbard in the upcoming sale spent little or no time in an attic, and certainly nowhere near 87 years.
Edit: I can’t get the photograph to load to this post, but the commentary is valid.
Folks, Now many years ago, in the 1983 or so time frame, I knew of a gunsmith who was totally restoring a trashed Winchester. His costs would be quite significant to say the least. He had previously done the same to a Colt 1860, I think, for the same man. The gunsmith had been to Tulsa and saw his customer with the restored, pristine Colt wrapped in an old, oily rag. Supposedly just discovered in an attic. I kind of feel the same here. The rifle looks just too good to be stored that long in an attic. Am I an expert? Not by my count, but I wouldn’t be bidding as the dollars will be well above my pay grade. Tim
I think it has been cleaned well. There seems to be the appearance of a light surface rust on the back of the butt plate and some silvering along the top like it had rust removed previously. There also appears to be a cleaned spot of corrosion on right barrel flat couple inches ahead of forearm cap. Right side of receiver looks like it has several spots of pitting, particularly by the loading gate screw. Also some dings in the right side of stock. I don’t pretend to be anything of expert here, just pointing out what I am seeing. Of course I am bias to this rifle based on what it is.
To add on as I just picked up on this. Notice the crate, there are dozens of nail holes in it. Take notice of the shape and sizes of them, that crate has been opened and closed and re-nailed many times. Original nails most likely were hand cut square shank. Yet there are dozens of round shank box nail holes, Including what appears to be a galvie roofing nail. Lid shows where a claw hammer was used to lift heads of some nails but not others. Like I said previously, no expert here just my observations.
When in doubt, do without! The only way anybody should bid on this item is after getting a favorable written report by a committee of 12 of WACA’s most skeptical and 1886-knowledgable members. To be housed, fed and compensated at Seller’s expense, the quality of the food and housing, and the level of compensation, not to be contingent on the outcome of their collective opinion, nor shall it be less than magnificent.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
oldcrankyyankee said
I think it has been cleaned well. There seems to be the appearance of a light surface rust on the back of the butt plate and some silvering along the top like it had rust removed previously. There also appears to be a cleaned spot of corrosion on right barrel flat couple inches ahead of forearm cap. Right side of receiver looks like it has several spots of pitting, particularly by the loading gate screw. Also some dings in the right side of stock. I don’t pretend to be anything of expert here, just pointing out what I am seeing. Of course I am bias to this rifle based on what it is.
Tom – but it is a .45-90! And did you see all those cartridges with it!
Your comments about light surface rust and perhaps some rust being previously removed, adds some credence to the possibility it hasn’t been completely redone. But, not enough credence for me 
Yeah, I noticed the schmoo around the receiver to barrel connection (from use or packing grease that was cleaned off?) and thought the same things about the leather condition (too good) and the salt-air environment of the coast, and the nails. It damn sure ain’t “new in box”…
That description alone wore me out reading it, talk about a bunch of added BS that doesn’t prove anything.
Zebulon said
When in doubt, do without! The only way anybody should bid on this item is after getting a favorable written report by a committee of 12 of WACA’s most skeptical and 1886-knowledgable members. To be housed, fed and compensated at Seller’s expense, the quality of the food and housing, and the level of compensation, not to be contingent on the outcome of their collective opinion, nor shall it be less than magnificent.
It’s a funny world we live in. As buyers, our group here is a tough group. Skeptical, critical etc. However, there’s a world of other buyers out there and a great many are not like us. The high-dollar dealers know this – and routinely sell to that group. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a high-dollar dealer (having the same concerns/skepticisms we have) spend big dollars on this piece. That’s because he knows his audience.
I know it’s hard to believe and flies in the face of opinions here, but there are plenty out there for whom, RIA = legitimacy. If something sold for big dollars at RIA (and there were lots of bidders) that is (enough) proof of legitimacy. It’s sort of a paradox. An intrepid bidder is at RIA bidding against one or more high-profile dealers. That bidder might think that of course the rifle is right, why else would those experienced and knowledgeable dealers be bidding? This is the process of how fantasy can be turned to, “reality.” It is the process of how whether something is, “right” or not, becomes less and less important. This is a phenomenon the high-dollar dealers are quite aware of.
steve004 said If something sold for big dollars at RIA (and there were lots of bidders) that is (enough) proof of legitimacy.
That’s the bloody truth, in the minds of the credulous that is, who will always exceed discerning collectors by a wide margin. But it happens in all auctions, that bidders who think they know the approximate value of something interpret unreasonably high bids as “proof” the item must be worth more than their own initial evaluation; the other bidders “must know something I don’t.” This is why I hate auctions.
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