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Production of .44-40 1892 carbines
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March 19, 2019 - 5:39 pm
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Dave K. said
I had two .44-40 carbines from the James Bay Area of Northern Ontario which I bought in 1963-65 period when I worked for the Hudson’s Bay Company. Both were used in the very harsh conditions of traplines by Indiginous people. Both were in shootable but otherwise poor condition from being left outside in winter. It was thought that to bring the guns inside after a day on the traplines would be worse because the condensation would rust the barrels.  

Dave,

Any chance that you might have the SN’s of the guns so that  I can add them?

Michael

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March 19, 2019 - 6:51 pm
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I suppose it comes down to the fact that there is no mystery here.  It’s not like we are saying they made x number of them and they’re not all accounted for, hence, we can’t imagine what happened to them.  The answer is there’s a lot of different answers as to what happened to them.  Add up the following and you can account for a great many of them.  In no particular order:

-They were sold and shipped out of the country (I believe the .44-40 was the most popular chambering to go out of the country).

-They have sat in various collections for decades.  Many have gone from one collection to another without coming up for air.

-They were used up and disposed of or parted out

-The movie industry gobbled up some

-They’re sitting in closets or are still in use

-Someone among us (not me) has most of them and they’re just not saying  Wink

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March 19, 2019 - 7:00 pm
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Steve004 wrote:

-They were sold and shipped out of the country (I believe the .44-40 was the most popular chambering to go out of the country).

The data for all rifles I have found to date in fact show that the 32 WCF chambering was FAR more popular in Australia making up a whopping 61% of the total!!!  Remember, that there is really nothing all that big to shoot at down there! 

Michael

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March 19, 2019 - 8:32 pm
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twobit said

Dave,

Any chance that you might have the SN’s of the guns so that  I can add them?

Michael  

Michael, I am sorry but these two SRC’s were given away shorty after I acquired them in 1960’s. One went to a girlfriend who wanted it for deer hunting! 

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March 19, 2019 - 8:51 pm
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twobit said
Steve004 wrote:

-They were sold and shipped out of the country (I believe the .44-40 was the most popular chambering to go out of the country).

The data for all rifles I have found to date in fact show that the 32 WCF chambering was FAR more popular in Australia making up a whopping 61% of the total!!!  Remember, that there is really nothing all that big to shoot at down there! 

Michael  

Michael – I wonder how representative the Australian statistic is.  After all, Winchesters were shipped all over the world.  I seem to recall many went to South America.  My speculation is the majority of those were .44-40’s but I could be wrong.

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March 20, 2019 - 12:24 pm
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steve004 said

Michael – I wonder how representative the Australian statistic is.  After all, Winchesters were shipped all over the world.  I seem to recall many went to South America.  My speculation is the majority of those were .44-40’s but I could be wrong.  

Steve,

I seem to recall that many went to South America but I don’t seem to recall anybody having any proof/real numbers of this.  There are LOTS of things said about where rifles may or may not have gone after leaving Connecticut but I can’t do anything with that “information.”  My feeling is that until there are some good hard data to support something it resides in the “Urban Legend” category for me.  The whole reason I began doing this survey some +6 years ago was to find out real answers to the unknowns regarding these rifles. 

In my work I have additional data on 1892’s from a total of at least 10 countries outside the U.S.  As time allows I will be looking at the distribution of those guns.  A quick look at the French rifles (all configurations) shows that 48 of those are 44 WCF caliber and that at least 4 of those guns started out in Argentina police use.

Ever since I began doing this work I fully realized that what is being sampled is “what’s available” on the market and that this absolutely may not be a direct correlation to what was manufactured.  The test will come when I can finish analyzing another 100,000 Model 1892 ledger entries and then compare the known production data to the information which I have collected in the survey.  This is why I appreciate every little bit of help and information on any rifle found in the world.  

Michael

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March 20, 2019 - 12:56 pm
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FWIW I’ve corresponded with a missionary in Peru who had a 92 chambered in 44WCF. He’s a hand loader and bullet caster so his choice of chambering is guided by brass availability. Since his presence is frowned upon by local officials he has declined to share the serial number of his 92 with me. Sorry, Michael. 

 

Mike

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March 21, 2019 - 1:29 am
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A lot of the carbines we see down here are half magazine too. Same goes for the 1892 rifles.

I have found the 44 to be the hardest cal to find. The 32 does appear to be the most common here.

Finding an 1892 SRC here that has not been well used with any blue is a hard task!

I remember Eric Ryan having a laugh with me mentioning 1892 barrels being used to pull the billy off the fire!

Chris

A man can never have too many WINCHESTERS...

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March 21, 2019 - 1:53 am
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Anyone has an original one, .44 40, with condition, more or less, not a trapper, preferably ANTIQUE, they want to let go…let me know.

A TALL order to fill!

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March 26, 2019 - 11:50 am
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Good morning,

Did anyone happen to get the serial number of this rifle??   https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/803589265

Thanks

Michael

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December 9, 2023 - 1:29 pm
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Good morning! I have a Winchester 1892 .44 WCF with the number 561266. Could you tell me the year of manufacture? Campinas/SP – Brazil

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December 9, 2023 - 5:31 pm
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Gilberto said
Good morning! I have a Winchester 1892 .44 WCF with the number 561266. Could you tell me the year of manufacture? Campinas/SP – Brazil

  

October 1910.

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December 10, 2023 - 12:29 am
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Doesn’t Madis mention the number of SRC carbines in 44-40, in some form? 

 

I would like to post a picture of mine, but see no way to attach pictures. 

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December 10, 2023 - 12:31 am
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[email protected] said
Doesn’t Madis mention the number of SRC carbines in 44-40, in some form? 

Perhaps, but his numbers are little more than fabrications and not grounded in fact.

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December 10, 2023 - 12:39 am
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Before George Madis, we had nothing real on Winchesters.  All he had to work with was what the moron management left in the way of records. 

He told me that sometime between 1961 and 1970 Winchester “management” THREW OUT all of their shipping destination ledger records. 

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December 10, 2023 - 1:00 am
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[email protected] said
Before George Madis, we had nothing real on Winchesters.  All he had to work with was what the moron management left in the way of records. 

He told me that sometime between 1961 and 1970 Winchester “management” THREW OUT all of their shipping destination ledger records.

I won’t deny that, but a lot of his data is sketchy.

Winchester stupidly discarded records, but the story I heard was they used them to fire their furnaces over the years.

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December 10, 2023 - 1:12 am
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I recall reading that in the early 50’s Winchester burned hopper fulls of records to free up space and fuel the furnaces. There was a story and pics detailing this event in the Winchester Employee Magazine.

Did Winchester actually have Shipping Destination Ledgers? Don’t recall ever hearing of such records.

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December 10, 2023 - 3:21 am
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Yes, according to George, they had large ledgers down in a basement.  George told me “I was going to write down all of the Model 1873 serial numbers that were shipped to Texas for Rangers.  It was one larger order.  But the ledgers were gone, and the oldest employees were really upset at learning this”.

I believe that these Win 1873’s were carbines in the 2nd model serial range. 

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December 10, 2023 - 3:31 am
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[email protected] said
Before George Madis, we had nothing real on Winchesters.  All he had to work with was what the moron management left in the way of records. 

He told me that sometime between 1961 and 1970 Winchester “management” THREW OUT all of their shipping destination ledger records. 

Your first statement above is quite frankly as erroneous as the statistical information that George published.  It is the factory records (at the CFM) that positively tell us that George was grossly in error, and negligent in his research.  I invite you to diligently compare the information that George published in his books concerning the Model 1894 production versus the information that was published in the ARMAX Vol 5 (in 1995).  The information in the ARMAX Vol 5 survey was derived directly from the factory records that the so-called “moron management” had transferred to the Winchester Museum in New Haven (later was later donated and transferred to the Cody Firearm Museum).

The “story” he told you about “management” throwing out all of the shipping destination ledger records between 1961 and 1970 is also false.  Winchester intentionally burned (in their factory furnaces) nearly all of the missing records, and they did it well before 1961.  As of the passage and enactment of the GCA of 1968, no records could be tossed out or burned.

Bert – WACA Historian

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December 10, 2023 - 1:05 pm
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Gilberto said
Good morning! I have a Winchester 1892 .44 WCF with the number 561266. Could you tell me the year of manufacture? Campinas/SP – Brazil 

Good morning Gilberto,

Can you please send me some photos of your Model 1892 so that I can enter the details into my research survey?  My email address is [email protected]  What is the length and shape of the barrel?

Michael

 

Bom dia Gilberto,

Você pode me enviar algumas fotos do seu modelo 1892 para que eu possa inserir os detalhes em minha pesquisa? Meu endereço de e-mail é [email protected]  Qual é o comprimento e o formato do cano?

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