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TR said
A 36 inch barrel is rare, rare , rare! If the gun is original buy it. Make sure the barrel is not stretched, look down the bore for a seam or change in rifling, look down the outside for change in finish, and point the barrel at a light and look down the outside for a shadow or bend. The human eye can see a minor flaw if the angle and light is right. Post some really good pictures of the barrel address and serial number, if correct don’t worry about sights and butt plate. One of my most prized Winchester is a 36″ 1886, all 36″ barrels are extremely rare. Winchester didn’t make many and most were cut down at some point to make them easier to handle. The rarity is a uncut original barrel on the original gun with a letter to prove it. T/R
The bore is what I consider frosted, sort of a matte stainless look, with strong rifling and no signs of pitting or dark spots. I had difficulty getting a good picture of the entire bore. Every strike against this rifle will be used during negotiations, after all you make your money when you buy a rifle.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
TR said
I hope you realize that the gun is worth a great deal more than his asking price. T/R
Depends on who is looking at it. I see a non original post 98 with a rough finish that is missing parts. Yes there has to be “X” amount added for the rarity of the barrel length but what “X” is depends on how bad someone wants it. I am approaching this purchase like I am buying to resell, if there isn’t enough back end the deal makes no sense.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
[email protected] said
Depends on who is looking at it. I see a non original post 98 with a rough finish that is missing parts. Yes there has to be “X” amount added for the rarity of the barrel length but what “X” is depends on how bad someone wants it. I am approaching this purchase like I am buying to resell, if there isn’t enough back end the deal makes no sense.
Agreed! This rifle has some condition issues, some of which are not insignificant. Yes, it does have a 36″ barrel in .38-55, which is very rare. Putting this all together, the asking price of $5500 is the high end of fair. I would be more comfortable purchasing this one in the $4500 to $5000 range.
mrcvs said
Agreed! This rifle has some condition issues, some of which are not insignificant. Yes, it does have a 36″ barrel in .38-55, which is very rare. Putting this all together, the asking price of $5500 is the high end of fair. I would be more comfortable purchasing this one in the $4500 to $5000 range.
Sounds about right to me. You also have to keep mind there is going to be in the upwards of $400 in sales tax, at the asking price. It is comforting to know the market would be hot for an item like this. As many may imagine my email and message box has been quite busy the last several days.
Let me set everyone’s mind at ease. This rifle is coming home with me today.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
Wise move, do not underestimate the value of 36″ barrels and exhy. barrel guns. I paid at Rock Island $26,000. for a gun that had a $8,000. est. I was not the only man bidding. There are serious collectors that pay big money for these rare guns. Good Luck. T/R
It has been done. The man I negotiated with today was the owner of this shop. This man says he knows this rifle has resided in Fayetteville West Virginia for at least the last fifty years. This rifle belonged to his childhood friend’s dad, whom had inherited it from his own father, living it’s life wrapped in a blanket and stored under his bed. Now that the friend’s dad has passed, financial woes has necessitated the sale. The shop owner told stories of how he and his friend, as children, would sneak this rifle out to play with it. He stated that in his 50+ years of personal knowledge of this rifle the butt plate has always looked the way it does now. He also does not remember it having a tang sight but agreed it is possible the sight on the 1906 could have been swapped off the 1894, though he was not interested in allowing me to remove the sight to check or including it with the sale of the 1894.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
Nice grab!!! Whether you paid the 5500 or less, you got one hell of a deal!!! Congrats!
Congratulations, you are now one of the rare owners of a honest 36″ lever Winchester. Not many in the World. Do not underestimate that gun’s value. On a national gun dealers table or web page it would have a tag price $15,000 min. I and several of my friends have chased 36″Winchesters for years, the 1894 is “hard” to come by. T/R
The value of this gun depends on the original look. I would not remove the magazine tube or forearm. Leave the screws and stock alone. Just wipe it with a gun rag. Some people love to clean guns, this is not a common hardware store Winchester, it took over a hundred years to get that patina leave it alone. T/R
TR said
A 36 inch barrel is rare, rare , rare! If the gun is original buy it. Make sure the barrel is not stretched, look down the bore for a seam or change in rifling, look down the outside for change in finish, and point the barrel at a light and look down the outside for a shadow or bend. The human eye can see a minor flaw if the angle and light is right. Post some really good pictures of the barrel address and serial number, if correct don’t worry about sights and butt plate. One of my most prized Winchester is a 36″ 1886, all 36″ barrels are extremely rare. Winchester didn’t make many and most were cut down at some point to make them easier to handle. The rarity is a uncut original barrel on the original gun with a letter to prove it. T/R
A 36-inch barrel is rare on a lever-action… but not the Model 1885 Single Shot. Currently, I have verified (621) of them in the letterable serial number range. The rare lengths for the Model 1885 were the two rifles equipped with a 38-inch barrel !!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Maybe someone can help me out with a question.
I have found another 1894 that is claimed as a “first year” rifle. I have read that the last rifle built in 1894 was in the 1600 serial range and this rifle is serial number 1974, which should make it a early 1895. My question is would it be proper to call it a first year because it was made in the first calendar year or do collectors consider anything 1895 as a second year? This one is a 32-40, 26 inch octagon barrel with a second model receiver.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
Gun collectors consider any specimen manufactured in 1894 (which ends in serial number 1674) to be “first year of production”. Most gun dealers will try to enhance their selling price by claiming anything under SN 14580 is FYOP by using the old Madis numbers. A few will try to pass off anything made during the first 12 months of production as FYOP.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Tiny19812003 said
Maybe someone can help me out with a question.
I have found another 1894 that is claimed as a “first year” rifle. I have read that the last rifle built in 1894 was in the 1600 serial range and this rifle is serial number 1974, which should make it a early 1895. My question is would it be proper to call it a first year because it was made in the first calendar year or do collectors consider anything 1895 as a second year? This one is a 32-40, 26 inch octagon barrel with a second model receiver.
My personal opinion is that a “first year” Winchester needs to have been manufactured inside of the year that it was introduced. In the case of a Model 1894, which was first manufactured on September 20th, 1894, the final serial number in that year was 1674. Serial number 1974 was manufactured in January of 1895.
Thus far, all of the early production Model 1894s in 32-40 were 2nd models. I have surveyed (188) 1st model 1894s thus far (and still looking for more). Of that number, (186) of them are 38-55’s and (2) are 30 WCF (both Take Downs).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I would like to thank both of your fellers for your input, which pretty well confirmed my own feelings on the subject. I have found reference to the Madis research being flawed and that these are the numbers found in the Blue Book and used on all of these “calculate the age” websites. Using that scale this rifle does show as being from 1894 but also shows my rifle as being from 1899, which has now been confirmed to be from 1903. Oddly enough it seems the ATF still recognizes these numbers as being the correct way to date a firearm.
I did manage to get a few “better” shots of the bore on the 36″.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
That looks like a great bore, especially for its age.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Tiny,
Collectors Firearms just listed a Swiss butt model 94 (see attached link). It would be a $3,500 investment, but maybe it could be purchased and swap out the Swiss butt? You don’t see very many Swiss butt model 94’s pop up for sale. Since these were all hand-fitted, maybe it’s just best to be left alone?? I’ve never tried swapping butt plates on any of my Winchesters, so not sure how “universal” they are.
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/winchester-model-94-30-wcf-w9170/
Don
deerhunter said
Tiny,Collectors Firearms just listed a Swiss butt model 94 (see attached link). It would be a $3,500 investment, but maybe it could be purchased and swap out the Swiss butt? You don’t see very many Swiss butt model 94’s pop up for sale. Since these were all hand-fitted, maybe it’s just best to be left alone?? I’ve never tried swapping butt plates on any of my Winchesters, so not sure how “universal” they are.
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/winchester-model-94-30-wcf-w9170/
Don
It does not pay to buy another gun to steal the butt plate. Before you did that you could have it welded up and reshaped as I had done. The style you have is more common than you think since it was used on other models. If it was a Ballard style butt plate you might have a harder time finding one but they show up.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
The Collectors Firearms 94 is in a non letter S/N range, 30 cal. and smoozed. You take off the Swiss butt and the guns only worth $1500 or less. The butt plate on the 36″ gun is original and shows a patina where the horns were. If it was mine it would not bother me to leave it. I would not be in a hurry to spend $2000. on the up grade. I would be proud to put the gun on the wall and look at it. T/R
I think I’d leave the buttplate just as found but go ahead and get the right sights. The buttplate matches the rifle as far as condition, dont see anything wrong with it even though its been customized by a prior owner. Its part of the rifle’s history. When you start upgrading and such that history gets lost.
Its been kicked around a bit in some of the above posts about condition and what-have-you but this is a situation where rarity outweighs condition in my opinion. Consider this regarding its rarity, more 1873 “Engraved like 1 of 1000) rifles were made than were likely 1894 rifles with 36″ barrels based on the known data. Those in 38-55 with 36” barrels are equivalent in rarity to an 1873 or 1876 1 of 100 rifle.
There are many more rare guns out there still to be found, its just that some of us are luckier than others in finding them.
Congrats and thanks for sharing Tiny19812003
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Like everyone is suggesting, I had already decided the butt plate was of low priority to me. The fact it letters with the plate is good enough for me and, as has been mentioned, it was not uncommon for them to get cut. I am actively looking for a correct Lyman sight though, several on Ebay right now but none has caught my eye as being “the one”.
At the very least, even if I had not been able to make the purchase, this rifle is now documented as being found. Who am I kidding? Even if I had not made the purchase there was a multitude of other members willing to step up to that roll. The fact is the second everyone figured out what this thread was all about that rifle was sold in one way or another.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
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