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I greatly appreciate all the insight everyone is providing. It is truly great to find a group of folks willing to come together and help out a complete stranger. This is my first dive into serious firearms collecting and the thought of spending $5500 on one rifle has me a bit shaken, to say the very least. This is nice used vehicle type of money, which I would honestly get more use from but likely would not bring near as much joy. I have been collecting for several years acquiring some 70+ modern firearms over a four year period. At first it was whatever I could get, using the old quantity method. Later I started being a little more picky, still a quantity method but only buying the nicer examples or severely under priced. Nowadays I look more for the nicest available examples of what I want to own, much like this 1894.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
One member has brought up the question of this rifle possibly having an tang sight at some point. I will have to agree that the screws in the tang would suggest this as a definite possibility. Oddly enough the same shop has a Winchester model 06 with a tang sight, that belongs to the same consignee. I wonder if this sight could have resided on the 1894 for some period of time?
This rifle is serial numbered 663762, which should put it in the mid 1920’s. I believe this sight is a much earlier Lyman #2 that would be more suited to the age of the 1894, which has been determined to have been manufactured in 1903. It would seem that the little model 06 would be better suited to have a 2A sight with the locking lever.
But… The 1894 has a rear sight dovetailed into the barrel. If it had originally came with a tang sight would that dovetail not have been plugged or deleted? Also the 1894’s tang is evenly discolored, would it not be almost prefect if a tang sight had always been there?
Winchester Model 06 with tang sight
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
Tiny:
Here is a table that I put together for an article printed in “The Winchester Collector” several year’s ago that you may fond of interest.
Good luck with your negotiation!
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
Rick Hill said
Tiny:Here is a table that I put together for an article printed in “The Winchester Collector” several year’s ago that you may fond of interest.
Good luck with your negotiation!
Big thanks for that information, again proving there are a great bunch of folks using these forums. Looks like I may have found one of eight 38-55 rifles with a 36 inch barrel.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
Tiny,
The 1894 Armax figures are posted in the Summer, 2016 Winchester Collector Magazine. On page 21, serial number 175381 is one of 209 rifles in the survey as having a swiss butt plate:
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201606/index.html#22
Congrats on your rare find,
Don
deerhunter said
Tiny,The 1894 Armax figures are posted in the Summer, 2016 Winchester Collector Magazine. On page 21, serial number 175381 is one of 209 rifles in the survey as having a swiss butt plate:
https://winchestercollector.org/magazines/201606/index.html#22
Congrats on your rare find,
Don
Wow!! Right there it is in clear print. That is very exciting and, and the same time, so very disappointing because now I know the butt plate was modified.
Wonder what happened? Did the owner just not like it? Was it damaged and causing a dangerous situation? Wonder what the chances are of ever being able to find a replacement just for display purpose?
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
OK, here is the information from the factory warehouse ledger records (courtesy of the CFM).
WINCHESTER MODEL 1894 – SERIAL NUMBER 175381
Serial number applied on February 28, 1903
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 38/55
Barrel Type: Octagon
Barrel Length: 36 inches
Trigger: Plain
Sights: Lyman front and rear
Swiss plate
Received in warehouse on March 21, 1903
Shipped from warehouse on March 23, 1903, Order number 177981
Date: December 12, 2017 – Searched by: cms/jb
So, in addition to the altered Swiss butt plate, the Lyman tang sight was also removed. The tang sight issue can easily be rectified. Finding a Swiss butt plate that fits properly is going to be difficult, but not impossible. While there were not that many of the Winchester lever-action rifles that were equipped with a Swiss butt plate, there were several thousand Model 1885 Single Shot rifles made with them. That will help increase the odds of finding one.
Because this is a “modern” rifle, and it has some issues, I would try bargaining down the asking price by at least $700. The Lyman tang sight is going to set you back approximately $150, and the Swiss butt plate at least $500 (possibly more).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Wow… Amazing information and so quickly. If I get into collecting Winchesters seriously I will certainly have to join the CFM. Am I correct in thinking that finding sight specs is unusual?
This is going to make for a powerful tool when it comes time for negotiations.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
Yes, having the sights letter is rare.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
[email protected] said
Wow… Amazing information and so quickly. If I get into collecting Winchesters seriously I will certainly have to join the CFM. Am I correct in thinking that finding sight specs is unusual?
This is going to make for a powerful tool when it comes time for negotiations.
It is rare to find sights listed on an otherwise standard lever-action Winchester. That stated, sights are frequently listed on a special order Winchester like this rifle.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
So, does this mean that I’m not losing my mind? Or is the jury still out?
Maybe some Venn diagrams would help to answer that? Or perhaps have Scotty beam-me-up, so Spock could Mind-Meld with me in order to elucidate regarding my lucidity or lack there of?
If only I hadn’t misplaced my Communicator. . . . Whoop! Whoop! Whoop! Nyuck. Nyuck.
FromTheWoods said
So, does this mean that I’m not losing my mind? Or is the jury still out?Maybe some Venn diagrams would help to answer that? Or perhaps have Scotty beam-me-up, so Spock could Mind-Meld with me in order to elucidate regarding my lucidity or lack there of?
If you are talking about the butt plate, there was another gun that was brought up a few weeks ago that had the swiss butt ears cut off but this is the first time this gun has been on the site. Its very common for them to get cut. It more of a target butt plate and does not lend itself to pulling the gun up quick to shoot so they cut them off. I have bought two guns that had them cut off.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Thank you, Bob.
It must have been the other gun that I was thinking of.
A 36 inch barrel is rare, rare , rare! If the gun is original buy it. Make sure the barrel is not stretched, look down the bore for a seam or change in rifling, look down the outside for change in finish, and point the barrel at a light and look down the outside for a shadow or bend. The human eye can see a minor flaw if the angle and light is right. Post some really good pictures of the barrel address and serial number, if correct don’t worry about sights and butt plate. One of my most prized Winchester is a 36″ 1886, all 36″ barrels are extremely rare. Winchester didn’t make many and most were cut down at some point to make them easier to handle. The rarity is a uncut original barrel on the original gun with a letter to prove it. T/R
I like 94s, Got a 30 and a 32 incher still looking for a 34 and 36.
let us know what you decide
V/R
Mike Hunter
I forgot to mention, 38/55 is the most desirable caliber for a 1894. This gun will not stay on the market long, T/R
Due to weather and work schedule I may not be able to get back to the rifle till after Christmas. Not much of an issue since I have a escrow deal with them right now. They have agreed to hold the rifle for 30 days pending a CFM report, little did I know Bert was going to jump in and speed things along. Big thanks to Bert, and all the others that messaged to offer the same assistance. To show my appreciation I have paid my dues and I am now a full fledged member.
I will let everyone know something shortly.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
I hope you realize that the gun is worth a great deal more than his asking price. T/R
November 7, 2015
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[email protected] said
Due to weather and work schedule I may not be able to get back to the rifle till after Christmas. Not much of an issue since I have a escrow deal with them right now. They have agreed to hold the rifle for 30 days pending a CFM report, little did I know Bert was going to jump in and speed things along. Big thanks to Bert, and all the others that messaged to offer the same assistance. To show my appreciation I have paid my dues and I am now a full fledged member.
I will let everyone know something shortly.
Welcome to the forum, Johnnie. Looking forward to hearing more about this rifle.
Mike
[email protected] said
To show my appreciation I have paid my dues and I am now a full fledged member.
Way to go Johnnie and welcome to one of the best sources of Winchester information anywhere. What this group doesn’t know we can usually find out.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
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