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New member here with a question about a rifle I found on my adventures. I usually take at least one of my days off each week to visit my favorite gun stores but, last week, decided to take another route and visit a few I had never been to. Scored a new condition 54cal Thompson renegade for $149, so it was a worth while trip just for that.
Towards the end of my journey I happened upon a small shop, set way back off the road and down over the hill, that had a small sign that simply displayed “GUNS”. What the heck, right?, after all I am out to find just that. Inside this shop I discovery what looked to be a personal collection of long arms, through there were a few cases of newer model handguns available. Sitting to the far right side of a dimly lit old rack was something that looked very familiar but, at the same time, also a complete stranger to my knowledge. A few moments later I hear some scuffling from the back and out popped a feller much younger than I had anticipated. Very friendly guy, though could be considered a bit intimidating due to his size. With a large smile he asks if there was anything he could do for me, he could clearly see I was eyeing up the abnormality in the corner.
Enough with setting the scene already, I ain’t no writer.
Turns out we have a special order model 1894 built in 1895, by his word, cambered in 38-55 with a whopping 36″ barrel. Upon asking what something like that would sell for he quickly, and clearly, declares the price is $5500. After hearing the price I backed off thinking there is no way I could even consider spending that kind of money. He willing offers to let me “take a look at it” but I hold firm on my mindset of not spending $5500 today, actually holding the rifle would have put a major weakened spot in my decision. I scan the rest of his collection quickly stopping to ask about a cherry model 61, priced at $1500. I look through his new stock, in the handgun cases, thank him for his time and make my exit.
This rifle has stuck in my mind every since and that 36″ barrel has driven my crazy, so I decided to do a little research. I have not been able to produce any information other than barrels were available from 14 to 36 inches and the standard is 26″ for a rifle. Last night, after many hours of scouring the internet, I bought the kindle version of Robert Renneberg’s Winchester model 94: A century of craftsmanship. As of now I have only made it through chapter 2, which deals with barrels. Frankly, I had absorbed so much knowledge that continuing on would have been futile. At this point, in the book, all that has been stated is “on rifles, the extremely short (15-19 inch) or the extremely long (30-36 inch) lengths are also most unusual”.
Now mind you I only seen it from approximately 15 foot and the only other characteristic I noticed was a crescent butt-plate. SO…. Just how rare is it to find a model 1894 with a 36″ barrel? How would such a thing effect the pricing of a rifle? At $5500 is it something I should reconsider and go back for a better inspection?
Big thanks for everyone’s time
Johnnie
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
Johnnie,
A 36-inch barrel on a Model 1894 rifle is rare. Accordingly to the Cody Firearms Museum survey of the surviving records, there were just (22) rifles manufactured with a 36-inch barrel. If the rifle you looked at has any kind of condition (not a beat up brown rifle), it could easily be worth $5,500.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Johnnie,
You will only get one chance in your life to own a 36″ 94 but you have to be sure its real.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bert H. said
Johnnie,
A 36-inch barrel on a Model 1894 rifle is rare. Accordingly to the Cody Firearms Museum survey of the surviving records, there were just (22) rifles manufactured with a 36-inch barrel. If the rifle you looked at has any kind of condition (not a beat up brown rifle), it could easily be worth $5,500.
Bert
Bert,
Big thanks because that is the type of information I was hoping to find.
1873man said
Johnnie,You will only get one chance in your life to own a 36″ 94 but you have to be sure its real.
Bob
Bob,
That is the exact reason I wanted to find someone to ask about this rifle. With such a low production number that would be great incentive for someone to try and “make an extra”.
You two fellers have talked me into it. I am going back tomorrow to take the owner up on his offer to “have a look”. Looks like I am going to have a long night ahead of me reading up on what to look for. Problem will come if everything looks correct but yet how would you get certain confirmation quickly? I know Cody offers their research services but that takes weeks to complete. At the very least, with the owners permission, I may be able to post some pictures tomorrow.
Johnnie
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
Johnnie,
That is the reason I belong to the Cody Museum so I don’t have to wait for a letter. I just call and you get a answer within a day. If this gun is that early and is a 36″ I would assume the guy already has a letter on it. I wouldn’t be in a rush, do your research first. The hardest job of this deal is to be able to tell if this gun has been made up or doctored and that kind of education can’t be learned in a book. Your going to need a expert to look at the gun or get the gun with a inspection period.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Have I seen this rifle recently in another post, or is this a different rifle with a modified non-usual butt-plate? (You may have noticed I can’t remember what those European butt-plates are called.) Schuetzen butt-plate?
FromTheWoods said
Have I seen this rifle recently in another post, or is this a different rifle with a modified non-usual butt-plate? (You may have noticed I can’t remember what those European butt-plates are called.) Schuetzen butt-plate?
That is definitely not a “Schuetzen” butt plate, or even a “Swiss” butt plate. It appears to be more like a crescent butt plate, but much thicker at the toe. I would like to see better pictures of it.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
[email protected] said
What is the serial number on that rifle? With it, I can have the serial number researched to determine what it should be.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I had thought it might be a European that had been cut and smoothed to remove the protrusions. I’ve seen one of those within the past two months–or I’m truly losing my mind.
Since it has a custom length barrel and what looks like a perfect fit brass buttplate, I’ll second the notion that it looks like a Swiss or Schuetzen buttplate with the protrusions nicely filed off.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
I apologize for just the one “teaser” photo, there are more to come. The filed butt plate theory holds water because there are in fact file marks visible. The rifle turns out to be a bit newer than originally stated, I believe likely closer to the turn of the century. This rifle is on consignment and has no documentation available to back up any claims. Story is the rifle belonged to the owner’s, consignees, Great Grandfather, it is not known if he was the original owner. Serial number, as you will find in the photos, is 175381.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
One last picture. This is just the same original photo but posted like the others. As you can see from the above photo collection this shop was very accommodating and one of the fellers can even be seen holding the bore light for me, a little tough to hold a bore light and look down a muzzle 36 inches away.
Only own one 1894, but it's a good one.
Looking at the pictures, The gun looks like everything was made together. The next step is to check the serial number with Cody.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
yes, definatley get a serial number search. Can’t wait to see what they say.
Thanks for sharing.
Al
Wincacher said
Since it has a custom length barrel and what looks like a perfect fit brass buttplate, I’ll second the notion that it looks like a Swiss or Schuetzen buttplate with the protrusions nicely filed off.
It could be a modified Swiss butt plate, but it definitely is not a Schuetzen butt plate (which were made of steel). The various Swiss butt plates types that Winchester used were nickel plated bronze.
The first three pictures are all Swiss butt plates (early, mid, and late styles), and the next two pictures show Schuetzen Butt plates (Helm pattern & Laudensack pattern).
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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