Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Model 1886 ELW, antique, .45-70 very special rifle
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4636
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
February 18, 2024 - 11:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Anyone around here land this one yesterday?  I was sure drooling. What an amazing rifle!  I loved seeing Tommy Rholes letter.  I can’t find the winning bid price but my speculation was it would sell over the high estimate:

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1045/2030/winchester-deluxe-model-1886-extra-lightweight-short-rifle

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2348
Member Since:
March 20, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
February 19, 2024 - 12:54 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

While the rifle has some nice features I can’t get past the fact that the wood looks like it was put on the gun yesterday while the receiver tells a different story.

Michael

Signature-Pic.jpg

 

Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 343
Member Since:
November 9, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
February 19, 2024 - 2:40 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Nice looking 86! A bit rich for me, I have to settle for the standard ELW I posted a few weeks ago

Avatar
The Great State
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 510
Member Since:
April 30, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
February 19, 2024 - 3:31 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

twobit said
While the rifle has some nice features I can’t get past the fact that the wood looks like it was put on the gun yesterday while the receiver tells a different story.

Michael

  

That is an interesting discrepancy…could it be case hardening wearing off in an uneven way? It’s scratched too though….

Avatar
Melbourne Australia
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 211
Member Since:
July 14, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
February 19, 2024 - 4:16 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Jeremy P said

twobit said

While the rifle has some nice features I can’t get past the fact that the wood looks like it was put on the gun yesterday while the receiver tells a different story.

Michael

  

That is an interesting discrepancy…could it be case hardening wearing off in an uneven way? It’s scratched too though….

  

That receiver is blued, not case colour hardened. 

A man can never have too many WINCHESTERS...

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 149
Member Since:
June 12, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
February 19, 2024 - 11:54 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Winchester never offered a case colored takedown receiver

Avatar
The Great State
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 510
Member Since:
April 30, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
February 19, 2024 - 2:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

antler1 said
Winchester never offered a case colored takedown receiver

  

Good to know!

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4636
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
February 19, 2024 - 2:39 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

twobit said
While the rifle has some nice features I can’t get past the fact that the wood looks like it was put on the gun yesterday while the receiver tells a different story.

Michael

  

Michael – interesting to ponder.  This comment is helpful to me as it helps assuage my remorse for not pursuing the rifle.  I think we can be fairly confident the wood was put on yesterday given Tommy Rholes and George Madis examined and described the rifle about 30 years ago.  However, what happened between 1899 and 1995 is an open question.  For a, “one of a kind” rifle with the wood being the feature that places it in that class, the lack of factory documentation is hard to ignore.  I would speculate it is Winchester wood and checkering, but whether it left the factory with those stocks is an open question.  They could have been added later in an R&R, they could have come off a different rifle…  you can’t prove or disprove anything when faced with a, “no letter” rifle.

My personal conclusion is the rifle is all correct.  George did disassemble the rifle and his recording of all the internal markings on the barrel, receiver tangs, stocks and buttplate were helpful and added up nicely.  Of particular interest is the hand checkered buttplate – how often do we see that?  CJ – you have an ELW from that same era – what are the details of that rifle’s buttplate?  

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1777
Member Since:
June 4, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
February 19, 2024 - 3:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

   The checkering is fresh enough to easily see the grain of the wood under it. Hopefully just re-cut. I’m pretty sure anything Tommy Rholes said was true at the time he wrote the letter. T/R

Avatar
LI NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 179
Member Since:
August 14, 2021
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
February 19, 2024 - 3:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Personally, I’m not a fan of Rock Island, they always seem to have a “0ne of a kind” something, even when the questionable status of the object has been discussed and apparently dismissed by them.

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5552
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
February 19, 2024 - 5:29 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

With no winning bid posted I wonder if it was sold. Quite possibly did not meet reserve. Very interesting, likely we’ll see it again. 

 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
LI NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 179
Member Since:
August 14, 2021
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
February 19, 2024 - 6:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Here you go.IMG_0611.jpegImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1720
Member Since:
May 23, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
February 19, 2024 - 6:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The only thing I find odd is that in 1995 it was appraised at $12,500.00.

What happen in the last near 30 years to only be appraised on the high end at $9,000.00?

If it was worth $12,500.00 in 1995 and kept up with inflation it should be worth $25,000.00.

Sincerely,

Maverick

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4636
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
February 19, 2024 - 7:07 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I had speculated it would sell for about double the high end of the reserve.  That was partially based on the past appraisal.  I suppose the wood has been redone (e.g. recut checkering) to some extant.  There are some near magical craftsmen out there.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 343
Member Since:
November 9, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
February 19, 2024 - 9:21 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

It hammered at 17,000 onsite bid, so it was 19,500, out of my range

Avatar
The Great State
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 510
Member Since:
April 30, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
February 19, 2024 - 9:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

A lot of auctions (not all) are not the place to go to see something believable! More like unbelievable… 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4636
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
February 19, 2024 - 10:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

cj57 said
It hammered at 17,000 onsite bid, so it was 19,500, out of my range

  

Are you including sales tax in that? Wink

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 343
Member Since:
November 9, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
February 19, 2024 - 10:54 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said

cj57 said

It hammered at 17,000 onsite bid, so it was 19,500, out of my range

  

Are you including sales tax in that? Wink

  

No, that’s 17.5 prem, credit card 3.5%, 6.25 Texas sales tax

Avatar
The Great State
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 510
Member Since:
April 30, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
February 19, 2024 - 11:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Plus shipping if you’re not local….any auction bid online should have 30% added in your head as a safe estimate….that $750 bid suddenly becomes a little over 1000!

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 84
Member Since:
November 13, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
February 20, 2024 - 5:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Jeremy P said

antler1 said

Winchester never offered a case colored takedown receiver

  

Good to know!

  

This is absolutely not true. I have documented several. In fact there were 8 case colored 1886 takedown guns produced.   

Jeremy Scott.

WACA LIFE MEMBER, CFM MEMBER, ABKA MEMBER, JSSC MEMBER, MNO HISTORIAN 

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Online: mrcvs, Erin Grivicich
Guest(s) 54
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7089
TXGunNut: 5552
Chuck: 4988
steve004: 4636
1873man: 4459
Big Larry: 2441
twobit: 2348
mrcvs: 1928
TR: 1777
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 13450
Posts: 118554

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1892
Members: 9263
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation