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Gaps between wood/metal
January 15, 2020
8:59 pm
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Troutdale, OR
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What causes this?   Shrinkage, sanding, swapped stocks, or??

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/851429008

January 15, 2020
10:34 pm
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Don,

Shrinkage only occurs when you jump in a body of cold water (or shower).  American Black Walnut, especially the higher grade, does not shrink.  I do not believe that the stocks were swapped or sanded on that rifle.  What I suspect, is that it was fully disassembled, cleaned, and then improperly reassembled.

This rifle is in the middle of several other Fancy Sporting Rifles.  It appears that Winchester made a batch of them in the 565357 - 566316 serial number range.

Bert

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January 15, 2020
10:49 pm
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Thanks Bert.  So you think those gaps could be closed be proper disassembly and reassembly?

January 15, 2020
10:51 pm
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I don't need a gun that you have to make an excuse for.  You may be able to move the stock closer to the receiver but there is no way the forend can be made longer. The buyer of this gun better hold it in his hand before buying.

January 15, 2020
11:03 pm
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deerhunter said
Thanks Bert.  So you think those gaps could be closed be proper disassembly and reassembly?  

Possibly, but there is no way to know for sure.  I suspect that the barrel tenon for the nosecap may have been reinstalled backwards, and is causing the gap between the forend stock and the steel cap.

Bert

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January 15, 2020
11:24 pm
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I have owned many deluxe Winchesters and it's very common for deluxe grade wood to shrink away from the metal.  Far more common with fancy wood than standard grade.  I know this seller.  He has had many very fine rifles listed over the past several years.  I can absolutely, without reservation, say that he is a credit to the collecting field.  His guns are as described and as honest as he says they are.  You'll have to make up your own mind, but this gun is the real deal.

January 15, 2020
11:30 pm
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Well now, they do indeed "Shrink", but you have to leave sitting outside for a while. Give or take a year from 100 years of being outside.

Maverick

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January 15, 2020
11:58 pm
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win4575 said
I have owned many deluxe Winchesters and it's very common for deluxe grade wood to shrink away from the metal.  Far more common with fancy wood than standard grade.  I know this seller.  He has had many very fine rifles listed over the past several years.  I can absolutely, without reservation, say that he is a credit to the collecting field.  His guns are as described and as honest as he says they are.  You'll have to make up your own mind, but this gun is the real deal.  

 He's a honest man with a honest gun. T/R

January 16, 2020
12:02 am
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Wisconsin
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I to have seen many deluxe grade wood forearms that have shrunk like that. I do agree with Bert that the tendon could of been install reversed and I fixed that on some guns by reversing the tendon with some luck. Sometimes I went to swapping the tendons with others from my parts box and find one that fixes it. The last option is you weld the hole of the tendon and drill and tap a new one in the right spot.

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January 16, 2020
1:25 am
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win4575 said
I have owned many deluxe Winchesters and it's very common for deluxe grade wood to shrink away from the metal.  Far more common with fancy wood than standard grade.  I know this seller.  He has had many very fine rifles listed over the past several years.  I can absolutely, without reservation, say that he is a credit to the collecting field.  His guns are as described and as honest as he says they are.  You'll have to make up your own mind, but this gun is the real deal.  

Totally agree on all points.  

This is not to say that I believe he is correct on all of his claims, nor do I know anyone else who is.

James

January 16, 2020
4:36 am
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win4575 said
I can absolutely, without reservation, say that he is a credit to the collecting field.    

I'll take your word that the man is honest, which in the world of gun-dealing (esp. on-line) is an admirable distinction, but jumping from that to a "credit to the collecting field" seems rather a looong step to take, unless there's more to his story.  Do you mean that he's not buying & selling for profit, merely making these guns "available" for some altruistic purpose?  Says something not very flattering about "the collecting field' when all it takes to be a "credit" is to not be a crook, like for ex. "Selling Dad's Old Guns," & many others.

January 16, 2020
5:27 am
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That's  exactly what I mean.  I'm  70 years old and have collected Winchesters since I  was 14.  I would hope that gives me some qualifications for detecting honesty or deception in the collectors/dealers I've encountered over the years.  What  I'm  trying to say is, this guy is honest and forthcoming about all of the positives and negatives on all the guns he sells.  Who else would post over 100 photos for a potential bidder to view.  Like many of us, he sells to collect.  When the collecting field has more & more questionable characters dealing in antique firearms,  it's refreshing to find those who can be trusted.

January 16, 2020
12:41 pm
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Why does this sound like the Trump impeachment scam...trying to smear a guy and a gun with made up BS. Move on!

January 16, 2020
1:24 pm
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I wish to digress for a moment.  The seller listed in original post with a link on GunBroker has a Model 1895 in .405 listed.  I'd appreciate thoughts as to originality, factory correct, condition, concerns on that rifle.

Thanks

Mac

P.S.  As to shrinkage, well I've certainly shrunk in height as I've aged but caught most of it in my mid-section.

January 16, 2020
4:52 pm
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I never intended for this post to be a slam on the seller or his reputation.  I was just trying to learn what causes the gaps in the wood vs. metal.  I've seen this issue fom time to time and wondering why.  For what it's worth, I have this seller saved as a favorite on Gunbroker and I drool over almost every gun he is selling.  In my opinion, he offers the best guns, provides tons of good photos, and accurate descriptions on Gunbroker.  Plus a return policy if not happy.  The only problem I have with purchasing his guns is lack of funds.

Don

January 16, 2020
5:36 pm
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Well said Don.  I agree with the "lack of funds" part.  Some people have asked me "if he's a collector and his guns are so great, why doesn't he keep them himself".  The answer is simple. Most of the guns he sells are not in his field of collecting.  He likes early Winchesters, mostly 1876 models.  His habit is expensive, so like many of us, he will buy high condition guns outside his field, so he can afford to add the earlier pieces he likes to his collection.  He has a large collection of 76's and he's partial to .50 Express guns.

January 16, 2020
5:49 pm
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Big Mac said
I wish to digress for a moment.  The seller listed in original post with a link on GunBroker has a Model 1895 in .405 listed.  I'd appreciate thoughts as to originality, factory correct, condition, concerns on that rifle.

Thanks

Mac

P.S.  As to shrinkage, well I've certainly shrunk in height as I've aged but caught most of it in my mid-section.  

Big Mac

I was looking at the 1895 right after it was posted up and I'd like to hear comments about it as well.  Let me clarify that:  I'd like to hear comments that are professional in a manner that is without language that is negative and absolute in nature, unless one can prove their remarks.

James

January 16, 2020
7:33 pm
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Maverick said
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Well now, they do indeed "Shrink", but you have to leave sitting outside for a while. Give or take a year from 100 years of being outside.

Maverick  

Maverick, I surely can't argue with that one.  I guess I just have seen too many bad guns and am overly cautious. 

January 16, 2020
8:29 pm
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Gun looks great to me, but would agree I would try to tighten up that forend cap tenon by trying another tenon or seeing if it was put in backwards. 

 

Most of the guns he lists are in great condition, being represented well by all the photos.  His auctions also affords the opportunity (if sitting the sidelines) to see the real value of certain higher end guns guns based on their configuration and condition.  I dont make it to a lot of gun shows these days, but I like to follow his auctions from time to time to see the final hammer prices realized to get a better idea of how certain guns should be priced to buy and to sell. 

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January 17, 2020
3:53 am
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1892takedown said
Gun looks great to me, but would agree I would try to tighten up that forend cap tenon by trying another tenon or seeing if it was put in backwards. 

 

Most of the guns he lists are in great condition, being represented well by all the photos.  His auctions also affords the opportunity (if sitting the sidelines) to see the real value of certain higher end guns guns based on their configuration and condition.  I dont make it to a lot of gun shows these days, but I like to follow his auctions from time to time to see the final hammer prices realized to get a better idea of how certain guns should be priced to buy and to sell.   

I wonder why this gun would have been taken apart?  Very nice looking gun though.

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