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I got my screw drivers. I did not take it completely down, but here is what I learned so far:
The link pin stop screw is not long enough to reach grove in link pin center, thus the link pin can slide in and out easily.
The carrier screws do not seat easily. I got the left side all the way in, or close to it. However, the right side carrier screw would not completely seat, even though it did go far enough in to engage the carrier. Notwithstanding the fact that I tried to use the proper screw driver and be careful, I buggered up the head of the new (used) screw I bought. It’s still sits proud on the receiver face, but it’s better than the old brass thing someone had in there.
The magazine spring is broken in the middle.
There is no ejector spring and the ejector extension over which that spring would sit is broken. It is no longer long enough to reach through the hole in the seat on the bolt.
As stated, I didn’t not completely break down everything (bolt, link, carrier spring, cartridge guide left or right, forearm, magazine tube, trigger and sear, safety catch spring).
I’m going to oil it up, put it back together with my new spring cover and tang sight plug screw, hang it on the wall and call it good for now. Maybe someday I’ll get more serious about it and when I have more time.
Looks good though!
Thank you all for all your help!
Now I’m having a problem with re-assembly. The book says put the cartridge guides in *before* the carrier and the carrier *before* the bolt. However, the bolt bottom hits the top of the carrier and won’t slide in. I can only tilt the carrier out so far because it hits the cartridge guide. I don’t see a way around this unless I take the carrier out, put the bolt in, and then try to put the carrier back in after the bolt. Any advise? Why would the book say to do this? Is my carrier supposed to hit the cartridge guide and not swing all the way down so the bolt can slide in? Thanks for any help.
Hey, Huck.
Why not just try slipping the bolt in and then follow that step with the carrier?
It’s been a couple months since I was inside a Winchester. My brain works while I’m working on them, but not here trying to offer you assistance.
Have you watched any GOOD videos on assembling an 1894? That might help you. (If there are any on the internet–?)
Also, I’m thinking the cartridge guides should not be inhibiting the movement of the carrier. With the non-seating and trouble you are having with those carrier screws, the carrier may be kinked in there–not pointing straight forward. Sometimes if you don’t finesse it, you have to fight the force of the carrier spring to get those screws to be properly/easily inserted.
I think the last time I played with a carrier, I had it pointing down like a lower jaw hanging out of the receiver. Somewhere in the jaw-drop arc, you don’t have to deal with the strength of the carrier spring.
I’m going to take one of my rifles apart right now to refresh my memory. I used to be able to recall all the steps and the do’s and don’t’s–getting old.
Well, that took a while. Anyway, you can install the carrier after the bolt. The rifle I chose to clean–the finger lever stop screw wouldn’t budge, so I didn’t get in far enough to take out the bolt. I did take out the carrier. As I said before, it will fit like a lower jaw. Raise or lower it to line up the carrier screw holes. If you wait to install the lever and the link until after the carrier is in, fitting the carrier might be easier–no lever/link in the way. Watch that you don’t bend the thinner side of the carrier when tightening the screws.
With everything that is nonfunctional or missing from your rifle, do you think someone was using its parts to fix their other rifles?
FromTheWoods: I got it all back together. Yes, I had to take the carrier back out, put the bolt in, then reinsert the carrier. The book I bought (Winchester manual, republished by Cornell) said to do the carrier first, then then bolt. But that simply would not work. Not only did the top of the carrier prevent the bolt from sliding in, but the right side cartridge guide prevented the carrier from tipping out the bottom as far as the diagram showed in the book. The higher right rear side of the carrier is what stopped the bolt from going in on the one hand, and the front of that same part hit the cartridge guide when trying to rotate the carrier top forward and bottom back and out like the lower jaw. I could get the carrier out the bottom a little bit, but no where near as far as the diagram. And it did not swing freely.
Anyway, I got it in.
Also, after putting the finger lever/link assembly in, I had to decouple them to lower the finger lever, push the bolt forward, then raise the finger lever up and re-couple it before putting in the finger lever pin. Not strictly in accord with the manual, but the manual did not work.
I think the carrier has been torqued at sometime in the past and that is why it is difficult to get the screws in, but that doesn’t explain the issue with hitting the bolt and the right side cartridge guide.
I also think you may be right, that someone was using it as a parts gun. However, because I don’t have an expert eye, it’s hard for me to tell. The magazine spring is broke. Why take out a good one and put a broken one in? Just toss it. The ejector/spring could have broken on it’s own, or it could have been taken out and replaced with a broken one, or the whole bolt. I can’t tell. But someone definitely was messing with the carrier. Everything else appears to be similar in age. The bore, I’ve been told, is sweet.
I intend to keep working on it, but at a much slower pace, and using re-manufactured parts from Homestead. I also intend to keep the external appearance looking like she’s been around the horn. I like the idea of the buffalo nickel front sight. I will get around to that.
nascar fan: As far as I can tell, when looking at the diagrams, the right side cartridge guide is in the correct side and facing the correct direction. However, I don’t know how far into the receiver track the rear portion of it is supposed to sit. All I know is the carrier hits it when trying to drop the carrier out like a lower jaw. Anyway, I got everything back together and it appears to be working.
Thanks everyone for all your help, especially FromTheWoods.
Your rifle wins First Prize for the most broken, worn out, buggered, non-functional parts that I’ve heart of. No blue ribbon; you get to keep the rifle! And at least your rifle looks like a true Winchester.
I bought an 1894 rifle last year for a parts gun. The trouble is, I have grown fond of it–won’t be pulling its parts. It would shoot when I bought it, but the lower tang was so bent (and cracked at the bend) that I purchased another tang for it, and almost ruined the newer one! tightening the upper tang screw because the upper tang has a glob-o-weld where it was repaired, and because it is not at the correct angle, and because the who-knows-what-it-came-off-of rear stock is cracking and breaking in multiple directions–held together with wood putty, tacks, a nail, two large out-of-the-tool box bolts which were installed to replace the aged wire wrap–You might be getting the picture now! Well, when I tightened the upper tang screw, it began to bend the newer lower tang. ==And here, I’ve noticed I have jumped a few tracks in not finishing that sentence up there.== So, it would shoot, but with the bent lower tang, the hammer spring didn’t have enough gumption to reliably set off primers.
The barrel on it is a Winchester replacement, and it is very pretty inside. This ugly beast may become one of my favorites! (Shuddering here.)
You may stop reading now, if you’d like. Just a story coming up. –My youngest son and his wife were over a while back. He is an Old Winchester lover. They hadn’t seen the Frankenrifle yet, but I had told my son a couple of its “modifications.” So when it came time to show them he was ready for an awful sight, at least he thought he was. The rifle, I kept behind my back until close to them, and then held it out toward them. Instantly my son put up his hands to protect himself from its taint, began to backpedal, and with a grim face was shaking his head and saying, “Nooooooo.” He has always come forward to look at and to hold a new family-firearm. I turned to his wife, who is not that into guns but she does enjoy her shotgun and a .25-20. I held out Frankenrifle to her, and she stepped toward me and with both hands out accepted it. That brought surprise from my son, “What? You have never reached out to look at a gun in your life!”
Frankenrifle moves people in unpredictable ways. Definitely going to keep it. It’s beyond description, so to help you understand my son’s revulsion, I’ve attached a couple photos.
And, you are “Welcome.” It has been a pleasure being a part of your quest.
Ha! Now that there is a *real* rifle! Gotta love ’em! I figure a horse went down and rolled over it in the scabbard? Thanks for sharing.
When I was just a kid I killed my first elk with post-64 pile of stamped tin cans, one shot through the neck at 30 feet. Paid about $100.00 for it in a pawn shop. Don’t remember what happened to it and wish I still had it. Note the duct tape holding it together:
I’ve seen you in that photo a year or two ago. You said something about the hair that young kid has tucked under his hat. Your pants show you had done a bit of work that day.
Those were good times, learning the fine points of hunting and being young enough to dive off ridges and be able to easily book it up the other side.
Thank goodness for Duct Tape! and J-B Weld and pocket knives. With two out of the three, a fellow can fix most anything!
November 7, 2015
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Yes, looks like Frankenrifle wasn’t afraid to go to the ground with a horse or two. Gotta admire a rifle with that kind of courage and dedication.
Yes, I was a on this site years ago but had problems remembering my name/password, etc. and found it easier to just start over when I found this 1894.
I’m going to order the magazine spring and ejector/spring and then some ammo and give it a try. But that could be some time.
For now, I did like the idea of a buffalo nickel front sight because I am a bison freak. However, I also thought it would be cool to use a nickel with the same date as the rifle so I found a Liberty, or V nickel dated 1898 and put it on. I based the height on my personal aesthetic of the rifle lines, not shooting/sight/picture. I didn’t want a big hump up front from a half nickel, but I did want the “1898” to show. I’m torn between solder and a dollop of JB Weld. What do you think? Here’s a pic:
November 7, 2015
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I like it, I’m thinking a spot of solder would be best. Epoxy might be a bit hard to remove it the situation presents itself.
Update:
There were other broken, missing or bent parts. I replaced all the broken and missing parts, and bent the bent part back into shape (carrier). The action is smooth and sounds good.
Not being a gun smith, I took it to one to make sure it was safe to shoot. He said the head space was great and spun a bullet through it. I took it home and a friend and I shot nine more rounds through it. It’s accurate, ejects well and the empty casings look great, and the round comes out the magazine fine, tilts up fine, but does not feed forward properly. It hangs up. A little jiggle or manually pushing the round up and in is sometimes required.
Any recommendation on what can be polished or adjusted or tightened or loosened to make this cycle rounds flawlessly? Thanks in advance for any insight.
P.S. Still makes a pretty wall-hanger.
November 7, 2015
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Are you moving the lever slowly so you can watch the show? Many years ago I was advised that the action of a lever gun was to be manipulated “smartly” or it would be more likely to hang up. One quick, smooth motion forward, another to the rear.
Mike
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