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Good Evening:
I just bought an 1894 Winchester rifle, SN 42898, 38-55, crescent butt, full magazine, octagon barrel, straight grip. I assume it was made in 1895.
It is rusty and missing the loading gate. There is an empty hole behind the hammer on the upper tang, an empty hole on the right side over loading port, an empty hole on the right side above the lever, and an empty hole on the right side just above and behind that hole. On the left side, above the lever, there is a screw head that protrudes beyond flush with the frame and appears non-factory? The front site dove tail is there but the bead is missing from the sight.
The wood to metal fit seems good and I think it’s original but I’m not sure. The wood is banged up with the typical dents and scratches. It is not flat and there is a gloss to it.
The action feels tight, everything seems to function, springs feel strong.
This rifle is what I would call a relic. I bought it to hang on the wall because I love the classic silhouette and it looks good to me. I paid $321.81 total ($250.00 at auction plus the un-necessary back ground check, tax and buyer’s premium I forgot about while bidding).
I thought about a Cody letter but I saw the price is now $70.00 and I figured I would stop the bleeding and ask you if you had anything you might want to add which would make a letter worth it not.
Do you think I paid too much?
Can you tell me anything about this rifle that I don’t know?
Thanks in advance for any comments.
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The serial number identifies it as an 1898 production Model 1894, in Sporting Rifle configuration.
Based on the condition and issues you mention, you paid an appropriate price for it. That stated, it can more than likely be fully resurrected. What does the bore look like?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I do not have the expertise or experience to rate the bore, but I can describe it as best I can. I have not punched it but when I use the white paper and flash light I see complete lands and grooves that don’t appear to be pitted or marred. However, the bore is not bright and shiny either and the lands are not crisp and sharp-edged.
I can try and take some pictures later this week. Oh, the rear sight is there but the ladder is missing.
Thank you for the information. I thought it was 1895 but that’s what the auctioneer and some web site said. You probably have better information.
It sounds like the bore is in good enough shape to be shootable. In your shoes, I would replace all of the missing minor parts, and get it tuned up.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
being of 1898 manufacture, it should not have been subject to background check and associated fees. Either way, for the money i think you did just fine
1badf350 said
being of 1898 manufacture, it should not have been subject to background check and associated fees.
Hell, no, but about half the dealers on Gun Broker and other auction sites force buyers to do it anyway; after all, it’s not costing them anything. Likewise, they won’t honor C&R licenses either.
Clarence, I have never experienced a problem with any dealer on any auction site not taking my C&R. This may be a problem in California, but I have also bought several C&R guns from there with no problem. At the Big Reno show, there is a dealer, who is there for most all the shows, that comes from Calif. He is a licensed FFL dealer and he refuses to acknowledge my C&R. Would not accept it for a 75 year old M52-B. Normally. I would have told him to kiss off, but it was a very nice BULLGUN for $1,300. I had to use a friends FFL to buy the rifle. That is the only time my C&R was refused. Big Larry
This auction was at one of those giant indoor flee market places that did not specialize in guns. There was a ton of mostly other things being sold (few guns) and I didn’t feel like arguing with the girl at the desk. :-). Plus, I didn’t know what kind of research or proof they would need to educate themselves to satisfaction.
$16.00. Oh well.
I feel happier with your statements that I at least didn’t get taken to the cleaners.
I will look into making it whole and functional but I confess I want to keep it looking relic. I would not mind freezing any further degradation but I don’t want it looking shiny either. I’m hoping the dry Colorado mountain air will protect it.
Thanks for the help. Pictures later if I can get my broken camera working.
Big Larry said
Clarence, I have never experienced a problem with any dealer on any auction site not taking my C&R. This may be a problem in California, but I have also bought several C&R guns from there with no problem. At the Big Reno show, there is a dealer, who is there for most all the shows, that comes from Calif. He is a licensed FFL dealer and he refuses to acknowledge my C&R. Would not accept it for a 75 year old M52-B. Normally. I would have told him to kiss off, but it was a very nice BULLGUN for $1,300. I had to use a friends FFL to buy the rifle. That is the only time my C&R was refused. Big Larry
I think you’ve been lucky, Larry; or maybe I’ve just been unlucky! I recently had to submit to a background check on a Stevens made in 1885, and for an obsolete cartridge! Argued with dealer, submitted proof of gun’s age, he didn’t care. And though many of the dealers selling 52s do accept C&Rs, I’ve seen others who don’t make exceptions.
Just last week, I passed on a Winchester made in 1915 on GunBroker because the seller wouldn’t accept my C&R. His reasoning was that it is too much trouble to verify Type 3 FFL’s. Didn’t do any good trying to convince him that I wouldn’t commit a federal crime by falsifying a C&R just to avoid paying a $25 transfer fee. In my case, I got a C&R because I live in a remote area where it is a three hour round trip to the nearest transfer agent. This is the second time it has happened to me with a seller on GunBroker.
Mark Douglas said
Didn’t do any good trying to convince him that I wouldn’t commit a federal crime by falsifying a C&R just to avoid paying a $25 transfer fee.
Gee, where can you get it done for only $25? Going rate around here is $50, though I found one who does it for $40, plus a 50 m. round trip.
clarence said
Gee, where can you get it done for only $25? Going rate around here is $50, though I found one who does it for $40, plus a 50 m. round trip.
Here in CA (Los Angeles area) FFL’s typically charge $100 for an out of state transfer (if they will do it at all) and then there’s $35 DROS on top of that and then they collect state sales tax on whatever the invoice value says.
Needless to say, it’s gotta be REALLY special for me to buy something from someone who won’t accept my C&R FFL. Generally I’ve not had issues. Usually the biggest hurdle is convincing the sending FFL that C&R doesn’t require a California Firearm Licensee Check (FFL’s sending to CA 01 FFL’s must verify the FFL’s legitimacy so they often ask for a CFLC number but it’s not required for C&R). I created a pdf with all of the relative penal codes (with links) that most of the time will clear things up and, I have to say, I’ve had very few senders who haven’t been accommodating. But it always pays to ask before you bid. $135 + 10% is a premium that has to be justified.
That said, if anyone has a job for a film and TV audio guy/post production/media expert in a free state I’m all ears!
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
Mark Douglas said
…His reasoning was that it is too much trouble to verify Type 3 FFL’s.
Not that it would change anyone’s mind if they are just too lazy, but all they have to do is call FFL eZ Check at: 1-877-560-2435. Of note, C&R FFL’s don’t verify on the eZ Check web site system and they fail without explanation that they are C&R.
I try to keep all of this info handy any time I enter into a negotiation. Just in case.
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
supergimp said
Not that it would change anyone’s mind if they are just too lazy, but all they have to do is call FFL eZ Check at: 1-877-560-2435. Of note, C&R FFL’s don’t verify on the eZ Check web site system and they fail without explanation that they are C&R.
I try to keep all of this info handy any time I enter into a negotiation. Just in case.
Thanks, that’s great information to have.
I guess one of the benefits of living in the economically depressed hinterlands is that the costs of services are very reasonable. Considering there is a $10 charge from the OSP for a background check, transfer agents who charge only $25 don’t make much profit. The last transfer agent I used before I got my C&R would only charge $25 no matter how many guns came in the purchase. I always tipped him generously. He just lived too far away.
By the way, he is also a local County Commissioner. Kind of shows the political climate where I live. Proud to say, Lake County voted 79% Trump in the last election, highest in Oregon.
XLIV said
Got My ccw from lake county. Why is it always so cold in lakeview?
44
At 4800′, Lakeview prides itself on being the “Tallest Town in Oregon”. I live further north in the banana belt at Paisley, although it doesn’t feel like it this winter.
Don’t rely on the dry mountain air, clean the bore well and wipe down the metal.Then give both a light coat of oil. Wipe the wood with a damp cloth, then wax with Simonize (so) in the yellow can or and good pure wood wax.
It then will be ready for reconstruction when you can’t resist the Winchester bug that just infinfected you. I know from experience that someday we will see a picture of a nice looking, honest wear, 1894 Winchester . Might not be the gun that won the west, but it is the gun that built Winchester.
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Here’s some photos. Not the best. Will try more IF there is interest. I have not yet touched the bore. The right and left are self-explanatory. I showed the action open in case that helps. It closes fine. The outside of the barrel is in front of the rear sight. The photo is poor. If you stare you can see the markings but they are indeed faded and it takes an eye to see it regardless of the photo quality.
Sorry, no joy. They are on Photobucket but I can’t seem to get them in here using the “Insert/edit image” option.
Huck:
Huck Riley said
Here’s some photos. Not the best. Will try more IF there is interest. I have not yet touched the bore. The right and left are self-explanatory. I showed the action open in case that helps. It closes fine. The outside of the barrel is in front of the rear sight. The photo is poor. If you stare you can see the markings but they are indeed faded and it takes an eye to see it regardless of the photo quality.Sorry, no joy. They are on Photobucket but I can’t seem to get them in here using the “Insert/edit image” option.
This is the correct way for non-members to post photos. You need a link.
The Link to Image Method (Available to all members)
Non WACA members may still post photos the old way, by linking to a photo on another site, but the process has been greatly simplified and includes the added bonus that you can size the image during the upload process.
Select the Insert/Edit Image button on the menu bar:
Fill in the image location in the Source field: (You can get this by right clicking on the image in your browser, select “View Image” then copy the link in the browser address bar and paste it into the Source field.)
Give it an Image Description if desired, then her is a bonus with the new forum. You can resize a large image to fit the forum window. Make sure Constrain Proportions is checked so it doesn’t distort the image.
Click OK and your image will be displayed in the size desired at the cursor location:
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Mark Douglas,
My Great-grandfather, Grandfather, and other relatives are up on the hill in the Paisley. Live relations from Paisley to Lakeview. (Pretty much all over the state.) My wife used to joke to her friends that she wasn’t worried about our old pickup breaking down on a trip. She’d tell them, “The first door we knock on, one of his cousins will be opening it.”
I have a feeling you and I exchanged greetings several years ago on another forum.
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