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November 9, 2008
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mikec said
Wrong butt? Was this not offered for a gun in this time frame. Believe me, I’ll take all the education I can get.
The flutes on the comb are commonly refered to as "Whelen flutes" as it’s said Col. Whelen designed the stock. I think they came out with the Model 55 in 1924. I’m just taking from Rennebergs book. P.86 he says around this ser# range [1,100,000] to about 1,300,000 will be found some 94 buttstocks with fluted combs. I’ve had some, with and without the serrated Model 55 type buttplate.
The "Whelen flutes" were designed before WW1, they just were not used a lot til the models 53 and 55 came out. I have seen a few eastern carbines in 92 and 94 models from 1917-1922 with them and rubber and steel SBs and 1/2 and 3/4 mags
Clark
April 15, 2005
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To the best of my knowledge, the fluted comb butt stocks were introduced with the Models 53 and 55 in June of 1924. They were also used on special order Model 94 Carbines during the same time period. I have not (yet) see one on a Model 94 Rifle (not to say they were not used). I am relatively sure that a 1918 vintage Model 1894 Rifle should not have a fluted comb butt stock.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
August 6, 2008
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Since I can’t get a letter I won’t know for sure. As tight as the stock fits and as good as the forearm color matches I would have guessed that it was completely original. Don’t know of any way to tell.
So, do I understand that the 22" lw barrels could have a flat crown that’s 9/16" and a full mag?
Mike
November 9, 2008
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I have a 94 carbine 880XXX with the flutes and rubber SB 2/3 mag, no saddle ring. In Madis’s book, in models 1892 and 1894, there are a few early (pre-1924) with them.
March 21, 2007
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mikec said
Wrong butt? Was this not offered for a gun in this time frame. Believe me, I’ll take all the education I can get.
The flutes on the comb are commonly refered to as "Whelen flutes" as it’s said Col. Whelen designed the stock. I think they came out with the Model 55 in 1924. I’m just taking from Rennebergs book. P.86 he says around this ser# range [1,100,000] to about 1,300,000 will be found some 94 buttstocks with fluted combs. I’ve had some, with and without the serrated Model 55 type buttplate.
The "Whelen flutes" were designed before WW1, they just were not used a lot til the models 53 and 55 came out. I have seen a few eastern carbines in 92 and 94 models from 1917-1922 with them and rubber and steel SBs and 1/2 and 3/4 mags
Clark
Maybe. I’ve seen alot of stocks swapped around too, even 92 to 94, or vise sersa, and and it was impossible to tell . Fit like the factory did it.
February 27, 2005
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Here is a 94 Ex. Lt. rifle with a serial number in the 750,xxx range.
This rifle dates to the 1914-15 era. It sports a smooth steel sgb and a fluted stock. Assembly numbers are seen on the plate, stock and tang.
[/img]
Rapid taper, standard taper, extra heavy. All 45 caliber.
August 6, 2008
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That makes me believe the flute stock was possibly available. Either way this has been good.
March 21, 2007
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mikec said
Wrong butt? Was this not offered for a gun in this time frame. Believe me, I’ll take all the education I can get.
The flutes on the comb are commonly refered to as "Whelen flutes" as it’s said Col. Whelen designed the stock. I think they came out with the Model 55 in 1924. I’m just taking from Rennebergs book. P.86 he says around this ser# range [1,100,000] to about 1,300,000 will be found some 94 buttstocks with fluted combs. I’ve had some, with and without the serrated Model 55 type buttplate.
The "Whelen flutes" were designed before WW1, they just were not used a lot til the models 53 and 55 came out. I have seen a few eastern carbines in 92 and 94 models from 1917-1922 with them and rubber and steel SBs and 1/2 and 3/4 mags
Clark
Hi Clark, I think you’re probably right.
November 9, 2008
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Hi Dave,
I have seen a few like the one 3855 posted (same ser# range), that look almost like the model 55
Clark
March 21, 2007
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Hi Clark, I’ve see them on several earlier 92’s like you mentioned. Never one I was buying, so I didn’t take a good look. An 1892 expert told me you can find them after ser# 600,000. Dave
April 15, 2005
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lozen said
Hi Clark, I’ve see them on several earlier 92’s like you mentioned. Never one I was buying, so I didn’t take a good look. An 1892 expert told me you can find them after ser# 600,000. Dave
I do not believe that is an accurate serial number range for a fluted comb butt stock. The reason I say say that, is simple… Model 1892 serial number 600,000 was manufactured in March of 1911. It is my opinion that Winchester did not begin making them until at least the early 1920s. If you think about it, why would Winchester have made a non-fluted and a fluted butt stock at the same time? It simply does not sense from a manufacturing standpoint.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
July 7, 2011
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In R. Rennebergs book ( second ed. ) page 106, a model 1894 w/ s/n 887084 which would be 1919 DOM, it has a fluted comb. Page 77 has a carbine, s/n 944518 ( 1922 DOM ) also with fluted comb. On page 87 is another one but no s/n given. It is stated that Winchester would supply what ever the customer wanted back then. Not sure if it was the Madis book or Renneberg book where I saw this.
Also want to apologize for some earlier posts where I mispelled R. Renneberg’s name.
Paul
Madis book guns with fluted comb stock
pg 407 s/n 705xxx 1914
411 443700 1909
421 973809 carb. 1924
428 883085 1919
433 475011 1910
439 no s/n
March 21, 2007
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lozen said
Hi Clark, I’ve see them on several earlier 92’s like you mentioned. Never one I was buying, so I didn’t take a good look. An 1892 expert told me you can find them after ser# 600,000. Dave
I do not believe that is an accurate serial number range for a fluted comb butt stock. The reason I say say that, is simple… Model 1892 serial number 600,000 was manufactured in March of 1911. It is my opinion that Winchester did not begin making them until at least the early 1920s. If you think about it, why would Winchester have made a non-fluted and a fluted butt stock at the same time? It simply does not sense from a manufacturing standpoint.
Bert
I think you’re right too 😀
April 15, 2005
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94shorties said
In R. Rennebergs book ( second ed. ) page 106, a model 1894 w/ s/n 887084 which would be 1919 DOM, it has a fluted comb. Page 77 has a carbine, s/n 944518 ( 1922 DOM ) also with fluted comb. On page 87 is another one but no s/n given. It is stated that Winchester would supply what ever the customer wanted back then. Not sure if it was the Madis book or Renneberg book where I saw this.
Also want to apologize for some earlier posts where I mispelled R. Renneberg’s name.
Paul
Madis book guns with fluted comb stock
pg 407 s/n 705xxx 1914
411 443700 1909
421 973809 carb. 1924
428 883085 1919
433 475011 1910
439 no s/n
Paul,
There are a lot of guns shown in Madis’ big book that are not legitimate (they do not letter properly).
A fluted comb butt stock is not listed in any of the original catalogs as an optional or a special order item.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 29, 1993
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I’m on the road and don’t have my serial number references with me but Winchester certainly did supply the fluted (lightweight or Whelen style) butt stock before the model 55 came out. I have at least three in my collection that have the fluted stock. Can’t remember off hand what the serial number/dates of manufacture are but I’ll be glad to post details in a week or so once we return home.
Rick Hill
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
July 7, 2011
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Of the 7 guns I mentioned, none of them will letter. There are approx. 696000 guns that do not letter up to 1929. I use that date because that is when they stopped offering rifles. Since my first visit to the Winchester museum in New Haven in the earley 70’s and all the times spent with Leroy Merz, I have learned that you can’t base everything on whether it letters or not. I only have 3 rifles that will letter but I am sure all the rest are correct.
April 15, 2005
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I agree that the fluted comb butt stocks were available before the Model 53 and 55 were introduced in 1924… but they were not available for very many years in advance of those models… most certainly not as early as 1916.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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94shorties said
Of the 7 guns I mentioned, none of them will letter. There are approx. 696000 guns that do not letter up to 1929. I use that date because that is when they stopped offering rifles. Since my first visit to the Winchester museum in New Haven in the earley 70’s and all the times spent with Leroy Merz, I have learned that you can’t base everything on whether it letters or not. I only have 3 rifles that will letter but I am sure all the rest are correct.
"Rifles" were offered as late as December 1937… at least for the Model 94.
The Model 1894 factory ledgers are available up to 353,999 (May 13th, 1907). The PR records are available up to serial number 1352066 (December 29th, 1945).
Per the January 1938 catalog, Winchester discontinued the Model 94 "Rifle" and the calibers 32-40 and 38-55 at that time.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 20, 2010
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Ive come across a several 94’s in the mid 600k serial range with the fluted buttstock and the hard rubber buttplate. Last year I sold a semi-deluxe SRC (straight grip, "I" style checkered) with SN 6626xx that had the fluted comb and hard rubber buttstock (also had a checkered trigger). I have no reason to believe the wood on it was changed out at one time or another, the checkering was worn down and the wood matched the wear on the gun. The buttstock (under the buttplate) and tang stamps were all matching. I believe it also had a hole drilled into the wood under the buttplate.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
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