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GB rifle for sale
April 15, 2013
2:25 pm
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Randy:
I sent you a pm.

Winchester1886:
I sent you a pm also and it shows as not being read. Is there a problem with pm's going through? Has anyone else had this problem?

Paul

April 15, 2013
2:28 pm
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Hang in there Randy at time collecting is a very challenging hobby there is always someone who knows more and always someone who trys to look like they no more.

You been stand up in this whole deal from what I read so don't let it get you upset its not worth the worry.

Bert is one of those guys who just knows more I take he has done an unbelievable amount of work to get there. So just accept his help and let the other comments sluf off.

Hope things work out.

April 15, 2013
3:27 pm
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Everyone is welcome to their own estimates of value. If that rifle had a "buy it now" of $1200 to $1400 it would sell quickly. If auctioned by someone like Jack the Dog on AA it would go over $2000. I think there are now 2 separate values to guns. 1) A high price that can be had online. 2) a 30% lower price that is how it used to be priced before online happened.

April 15, 2013
7:59 pm
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Welcome to the forum, Randy.

April 16, 2013
4:41 am
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There are a couple of things that puzzle me about this whole thing.
First it seems that the seller was a little touchy about the news of the
rifle listed.
Second if you go to the Winchester web site or go by Madis and use the
listed serial # 154950 you come up with a date of 1899? The 1898 cut
off serial number is 147684 that is a differance of 7266.
I have one last question and it is for Bert. You mention being contacted
by the BATF . Did they contact you in person or by phone or internet?
and by chance did you get the contact persons name. I am courious if
it was any of the guys I visted with some time back on this very subject.

April 16, 2013
6:11 am
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quantrez said
There are a couple of things that puzzle me about this whole thing.
First it seems that the seller was a little touchy about the news of the
rifle listed.
Second if you go to the Winchester web site or go by Madis and use the
listed serial # 154950 you come up with a date of 1899? The 1898 cut
off serial number is 147684 that is a differance of 7266.
I have one last question and it is for Bert. You mention being contacted
by the BATF . Did they contact you in person or by phone or internet?
and by chance did you get the contact persons name. I am courious if
it was any of the guys I visted with some time back on this very subject.

You are correct, I was a little touchy. Don't like being accused of being dishonest. I did not nor will I post the emails I received. It had nothing to do with the rifle. All this is just beating a dead horse and I will stop.

For dating this rifle I used the Blue Book and the Winchester Repeating Arms website. Had nothing to do with Madis.

MODEL94
1894- 1 TO 14579
95 - 44359
96 - 76464
97 - 111453
98· 147684
99· 183371

April 16, 2013
7:44 am
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Bottom line is that is a decent 94 with a lot of condition, and some interesting features. Yes it has a couple of extra holes in the frame; I’m pretty sure that the seller didn’t put them there.

He posted some darn good pictures, included a pic of the factory letter and in no way tried to hide any issues.

Wish more sellers were like him

The rifle is what it is, and would be a good start for a collector wanting an example of a TD 94 with a LW barrel.

V/R

Mike

April 16, 2013
7:54 am
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quantrez said
There are a couple of things that puzzle me about this whole thing.
First it seems that the seller was a little touchy about the news of the
rifle listed.
Second if you go to the Winchester web site or go by Madis and use the
listed serial # 154950 you come up with a date of 1899? The 1898 cut
off serial number is 147684 that is a differance of 7266.
I have one last question and it is for Bert. You mention being contacted
by the BATF . Did they contact you in person or by phone or internet?
and by chance did you get the contact persons name. I am courious if
it was any of the guys I visted with some time back on this very subject.

I was first contacted via email, then by phone.

Check your PMs for the name of the agent.

Bert

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April 16, 2013
7:51 pm
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mentallapse. I can understand you being a bit touchy. A few months ago
I didn't get a very warm welcome on this site but finally things worked out.
One thing I figured out a long time ago is that when your in a room full
of experts they seldom agree. The date of manufacture on the Model 1894 was turned upside down a few years ago as new information surfac-ed. The polishing room records show the date the serial number was app-
lied which left Madis out in the cold. He did nothing wrong just as you did
nothing wrong he was just misinformed. Over the last several years fire-
arms made prior to 1899 have been shipped as antique firearms without
a FFl transfer. I have done the same things many times but a couple of
years ago I quit because I wasn't so sure about the way the BATF looked
at the 1968 gun law or who was even in charge. In the last six months I
have spent a good deal of time on the phone with different ones from the
BATF and even a couple of lawyers and I am still not sure.I also thought
that a gun would bring a little more money if it was considered to be an
antique. I have about decide it will about $25.00 the average cost for the
holder of an FFl to do the paper. In the recent months since everything
has gone so crazy I feel it would be even a bigger gamble to term any
fire-arm an antique that fires rim-fire or center-fire ammunition. I am in
no way trying to tell you how to run your business that is up to you I just
want to share with you what I have come up with. I have a bad feeling
that within the next year or so a lot of people that disagree with me now
will change their minds.

April 17, 2013
8:04 am
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I am a good reader, but my comprehension is poor. Turns out I was not reading either one of my sources correctly. Guess the name mentallapse is appropriate for me.

April 17, 2013
9:08 am
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mentallapse said
I am a good reader, but my comprehension is poor. Turns out I was not reading either one of my sources correctly. Guess the name mentallapse is appropriate for me.

OK, that got a few Laugh Laugh Laugh out of me.

As it turns out, the information you were using from both sources was copied from George Madis' reference book. George apparently got his information from somebody at Winchester back in the early 1960s, but as has been discussed at length in recent years, we now know that it was erroneous information.

In regards to quantrez's last comment

In the recent months since everything
has gone so crazy I feel it would be even a bigger gamble to term any
fire-arm an antique that fires rim-fire or center-fire ammunition. I am in
no way trying to tell you how to run your business that is up to you I just
want to share with you what I have come up with. I have a bad feeling
that within the next year or so a lot of people that disagree with me now
will change their minds.

I disagree. I sincerely doubt that the definition of what constitutes an "Antique" firearm is going to change in the next year or even at all. It has been in the U.S. Code since the 1960s.

Bert

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April 17, 2013
9:51 am
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The amendment by Joe Manchin and Pat Toomey had in it that the antique definition would not be changed but that can change.

Bob

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April 17, 2013
2:05 pm
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Well the "President" was elected on "Change". Problem is that the masses of sheep-people didn't understand that change is not always a good thing.

My crystal ball is somewhat fuzzy but I imagine "Change" is coming. And what defines antique may not be the only change too worry about.

Maverick

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April 18, 2013
6:58 am
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Like I have posted in the past, all else pales next to Obama getting two Supreme Court appointments. I think right now he’s thinking “he who laughs last, laughs best”! If that happens we will have more to think about than which number is antique.
Gene 🙁

April 18, 2013
9:14 am
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Here is a view to consider,
As any Law Abiding Citizen, weather a Collector of fine Winchesters or any other Manufactured firearm, that can Legally own a Firearm, what is the problem doing a Insta Check to Obtain that firearm? Weather it is an Antique or Modern Firearm.
The theory being you can go to any sporting goods store and buy 30-30 ammo (for an example) and shoot it out of your Antique Firearm. I will Grant you there are a lot of Calibers that you can't just go buy off the shelf, but can be manufactured by an individual, to fire from a Antique Firearm.

The Penna people on here might know this, last hunting season a Licensed PA Hunter shot across a roadway into a Wal Mart parking lot to bag a 10 point buck. I do not know the particulars about this incident,just what the news reports wants everybody to hear. If this is the case, In my opinion this Hunter should never get a hunting license again and they should confiscate his firearms.

This is just a question I wanted to ask about, for other feedback with thoughts,from the Collectors Community.

Don't Crucify me, I am not a anti gun person,hokie

"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"

"Instead of The Space Age"

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April 18, 2013
9:58 am
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My question to you is why would you ever need to do a background check on a antique? How many antiques were used in mass shootings or used to hold up a convenience store? Background checks on a antique for one will slow up a lot of collectors and the prices of antique guns will drop. I don't know how much they will drop but right now antiques do command a premium because they are a no hassle transaction, cash and carry, plus no shipping restrictions.

I do echo the NRA's position that background checks would be step one in the lefts ultimate plan to rid the country of guns. First its background checks, then sales tax, next is registration and finally is confiscation. Its been done in other country very successfully. Once the government is given a tool it can keep amending that tool every time there is another shooting. There will be more mass shooting until they do like other countries do, put armed guards in schools. Everything that the has been proposed to date will not stop another shooting. Background checks will not stop gun violence. Gun violence will not decrease until we start teaching our kids at a young age which means kids have to raised by a humans not a violence on TV or "Call of Duty" game.

Colorado's gun law is closest I seen to a sane idea, antiques and C&R are exempt from a background check but its a start to the slippery slope.

Bob

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April 18, 2013
10:10 am
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Hey Bob,
I never said I was for Background checks for Antique Firearms. I guess I should have stated that clearly in my original post. I just wanted opinions on the subject.
Thank you for your opinion, hokie

"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"

"Instead of The Space Age"

From

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April 18, 2013
10:22 am
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The Penna people on here might know this, last hunting season a Licensed PA Hunter shot across a roadway into a Wal Mart parking lot to bag a 10 point buck. I do not know the particulars about this incident,just what the news reports wants everybody to hear. If this is the case, In my opinion this Hunter should never get a hunting license again and they should confiscate his firearms.

That's pretty bad if it happened that way. I don't think your opinion on the particular incident is way out of line either hokie.

Gun violence will not decrease until we start teaching our kids at a young age which means kids have to raised by a humans not a violence on TV or "Call of Duty" game.

I think that's a good point too Bob.

Brad

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April 18, 2013
12:02 pm
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hokie said
what is the problem doing a Insta Check to Obtain that firearm? Weather it is an Antique or Modern Firearm.

This is the statement that got me going. I figured you were for it.

I'm in the belief that laws and regulations should have common sense backing them up. Why do background checks on guns that may never be used in violent crimes like modern guns, not to say someone might take a antique to shoot someone but it would be rare.

The other issue is there is going to be a added fee to a transaction. I assume it will not be free. I thought I read that the proposed background check couldn't cost over $10. It wouldn't be worth the time for a dealer to do it so you would have a shortage of dealer doing checks for guns they are not making anything from the deal. I think the going rate is $20-$25. I could imagine the Tulsa gun show, you buy a gun then wait in line for a hour to get a background check.

IF a national background check is going to happen and there is no way around it then I would like to see all antiques and C&R guns exempt from checks, since these guns are not usually used in crimes. I would then want people with legal concealed carry permits to be exempt from background checks and waiting periods since you are preapproved and be good in any state. A person with a CC card probable owns a hand gun already.

Bob

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April 18, 2013
12:32 pm
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Hey Bob,
I'm glade we got that part squared away.about me being for it.

What you posted in reply I do agree with you, especially the part about having a Concealed Carry Permit. I am very familiar with BATF Regulations. Shipping Regulations and the Commonwealth of Penna Regulations.

Also in your first reply, yessss parents should be more responsible for their children's actions no matter what that includes.

Thanks Bob, for the stimulating reply's, hokie

"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"

"Instead of The Space Age"

From

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