Highwall in 38 EX|Page 3|Winchester Hunting, Shooting & Reloading|Forum|Winchester Collector

TXGunNut said
Chuck-
You’re certainly making me appreciate my relatively standard cartridges and cheap Lee Zip Trim and trimming tools. That long case presents quite a challenge!
 
 
Mike
  

Challenges are what makes it fun.  Keeps my old brain working. 

Shot the 6 cartridges yesterday.  This is the second time with the .381″ bullets. It is probably the last time I will use black powder.  My next loads will be with 4198. 

I’m still having problems loading these rounds.  The seated neck diameter is too large.  Being a shooter I want to do what is best for accuracy but I really don’t need to be accurate.  I am contemplating inside neck reaming to thin the brass about .002″.  I have a neck lathe but it is for cases with a shoulder to cut up against.  The cutter has an edge that is the same angle as the shoulder. These cases don’t have a shoulder so I don’t want to leave a ledge where it might crack.   Doing it on the inside will leave no shoulder because the brass gets larger and the cutter has no brass to cut. 

Open the link and look at the pictures below the tool.  You can see the profile of the cutter head.   Most run between a 25 to 40 degree angle on the one edge. 

https://21stcenturyinnovation.com/buy-online/ols/products/lathe 

rwsem said
Just talking out loud… What if you use a smaller diameter bullet but paper patch it? 
  

That might work.  I have never patched a bullet but my friends that target shoot black powder do all the time.  The next smaller bullets that I have are .375″ diameter.  The .380″ bullets when seated won’t chamber easily.   I should call Bear Creek and see what they can do.  I have a lot of .380″ and .381″ bullets.  I might talk to Lee Precision about one of their dies that can squeeze the bullets to whatever size I want.  I have said this before.  I do this to 45 ACP bullets to get the .443″ for the Henry and 66 rounds. 

I don’t have a die to size the cases or crimp the bullets, But I doubt it would help. 

Bert H. said
Chuck,
A simple bullet swage tool/die will allow you to reduce your bullets from .381 to .379 (or the diameter you need).  I have a small supply of .379 bullets on hand, but I use them for my 38-55 high-wall.
You should not need to crimp the bullets for a Single Shot rifle.  Resizing the case should be limited to just the short area where the bullet seats in the case.
Bert
  

I don’t think any Winchester ammo needs to be crimped.  Get the needed neck tension and your bullets will stay put.  I was thinking of crimping these because the mouth of the cases stick out some. 

Here is a picture of the Lee Breech Lock Bullet Sizer that I have.  I would have to order the bottom 2 parts.  A correct diameter sizer and the punch.  I messed up and the sizer is upside down but if you look closely it reads .445.  When using this tool you have to remove the bushing on the RCBS press so you can use the large diameter threads.

Mike, that is what I’ve been thinking, .379″.  It would be .001″ smaller than the bore but I might have to live with it.  Once I get the cases to chamber easily I might hollow out the bottom of a few bullets and see if this shoots any better.  On Tuesday I can talk to the guys that paper patch bullets all the time.

But, this rifle is not going to be used as a target or hunting rifle.  I have already shot more rounds than I ever thought I would.  Now I’m really looking out for a 40 EX and the 50 EX.  I’ve seen 40’s before but never a 50.  At least one that was real. 

Certain old documents say there was only 1ea. 50-140 made but that is not true.  I have a copy of the Ledger page of the 45 EX I own and it shows at least 10 ea. 50 Ex. rifles.  The 50 EX for the 1876 are listed as 50-95’s.  Vol 1 page 9 of Shuey’s Head stamp book under “The Enigma of Winchester Cartridges not Listed in Catalogs” he states ” Another is the 50-140 Express.  One Winchester Single Shot rifle is known to exist in this caliber along with a number of loaded rounds and factory new primed cases.”  In Vol 2 on page 180 he states that Winchester single shot rifles are known to exist in this caliber (50-140 EX).

I already have some brass that I could use to make these cases. Both should be easier than the 38 EX.  The 38 EX is the only one of the 4 that requires the case to be squeezed down to get it into the chamber for fire forming.  

Thanks, so how many 50-140’s do you think/know were made, 2?  I need to go through my notes because one other person said there was only one. 

I have a board dummy and 1 loaded round and those may be all I ever have. 

Do you have an idea how many were made in the other 3 calibers?  Over the years I have only seen a few 38’s and 40’s. The 45 I have is the first one I’ve ever seen for sale. 

Bert H. said
To illustrate the inconsistencies that are found within the factory ledger pages, see the attached copy of the ledger page for Single Shot serial numbers 12300 – 12325.  Take Note that there are (4) serial numbers that I have hi-lighted.  All four rifles were received in the warehouse on the same date and then shipped on the same date to Order number – 24881.  Three of the rifles are annotated “50 Ex” and one is annotated “50-95”, but all four are in fact chambered and marked for the 50-95 W.C.F. cartridge.

I have personally had my hands on 3 of the 4 rifles, and all of them are in fact 50-95 WCF (I serial number 12302 in my collection).  All four rifles were exported to Australia (James Rosier) and bear his “J.R.” marking on the barrel.  The other two rifles were purchased by well-known Winchester collectors/dealers here in the U.S.
Bert
  

Honestly I forgot the 50-110’s when I made my guestimate.