Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1913 model 1894, needs work, is it worth it?
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 37
Member Since:
February 12, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
November 29, 2022 - 11:16 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

I picked up a 1913 1914 (thanks for the correct date, Bert) model 1894 in 30 WCF a couple of years ago as a bundled deal with an excellent condition 1887 Colt Lightning. If I wanted the Lightning, I had to buy the 1894. Well, I sold the Lightning and did well on it and now I have this 1894 that has a gunked up barrel. I’m guessing that it is mostly leading and has the expected frosting. Overall, the rifling seems very nice on this rifle except at the last 2-3″ near the muzzle. It needs very little work on the action, but I’m not sure it’s worth putting any money into it. I’ve posted a couple of pics. I tried to show the barrel condition as best I could, but I’m not sure the pic shows enough to help. I’d like some opinions and it would be great if there was a member in the D/FW area that I could meet and for an evaluation. I don’t have much money in the gun and it might just end up as a wall hanger. All thoughts and opinions are welcome.

Winchester-1927-model-1894-bore.jpgImage EnlargerWinchester-1927-model-1894-1.jpgImage Enlarger

Jerry

I'm more of a shooter than a collector, but I do have a few collectibles.

Philippians 1:6

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11110
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
November 29, 2022 - 11:28 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I would soak the bore (especially that last few inches at the muzzle) with Kroil and let it sit overnight before taking a copper wire brush to it.

What is the S/N on it (so that I can add it to my research survey)?

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4410
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
November 29, 2022 - 11:28 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

I’d start out and give that bore a very good cleaning.  Get all the lead out and see what I had.  That won’t cost anything but I think you will quickly have a much better picture of the functionality of what you have.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 37
Member Since:
February 12, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
November 29, 2022 - 11:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

S/N is 673434 which, if I’m reading the s/n charts correctly makes it a 1913 rifle. The guy I got it from suggested soaking it in Evaporust, so I plugged the muzzle with a cork and soaked it for a couple of days, then ran a brush through it with little effect. I’ll get some Kroil and see if I get better results.

Jerry

I'm more of a shooter than a collector, but I do have a few collectibles.

Philippians 1:6

Avatar
South Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1045
Member Since:
March 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
November 29, 2022 - 11:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bore definitely needs to be cleaned to see what youve got to work with.  It may just be the photo, but it looks like the bore may have a bulge or ring in it about an inch forward of the magazine retaining band.  Looks like its got some rifling in the photo out to the end. 

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG

1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6657
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
6
November 30, 2022 - 12:54 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

If leading is the problem, wrapping some of the stainless steel strands pulled from a “Big 45” rust-remover pad is much more effective than a brass brush alone.  As you probably know, damage near the muzzle is the worst place to have it, but whatever you do, the question “how does it shoot” can only be answered BY shooting.  If it will group 4 MOA, that’s good enough to make it a decent shooter at iron sight ranges in brush country. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 37
Member Since:
February 12, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
November 30, 2022 - 1:20 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1892takedown said
Bore definitely needs to be cleaned to see what youve got to work with.  It may just be the photo, but it looks like the bore may have a bulge or ring in it about an inch forward of the magazine retaining band.  Looks like its got some rifling in the photo out to the end. 

  

I don’t see the bulge in the pic or on the rifle but there is a slight bend in the magazine tube, so maybe that’s what you’re seeing.

Jerry

I'm more of a shooter than a collector, but I do have a few collectibles.

Philippians 1:6

Avatar
South Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1045
Member Since:
March 20, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
November 30, 2022 - 2:10 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

jertex said
I don’t see the bulge in the pic or on the rifle but there is a slight bend in the magazine tube, so maybe that’s what you’re seeing.

  

In the bore pic, it looks like there is a ring in the barrel 2-3 inches from the muzzle, whether its a ring, a bulge, or just crud I can only guess.  Only cleaning will tell.  If it is a slight bulge, you will likely only see a waviness on the outside barrel flats when viewed at an angle down the flats of the barrel in the right lighting.  As Clarence mentioned, get the bore cleaned and try it out at 50 yards.  You should be able to get a 2″ group or better at 50 yards if the bore and ammo cooperate. 

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG

1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11110
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
November 30, 2022 - 3:01 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

jertex said
S/N is 673434 which, if I’m reading the s/n charts correctly makes it a 1913 rifle. The guy I got it from suggested soaking it in Evaporust, so I plugged the muzzle with a cork and soaked it for a couple of days, then ran a brush through it with little effect. I’ll get some Kroil and see if I get better results.

May 1914 is the actual date of manufacture.

I have never used Evaporust (or even heard of it).

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6657
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
10
November 30, 2022 - 3:30 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said I have never used Evaporust (or even heard of it).  

It’s supposed to be a “safe, non-toxic” rust remover, so of course it would have no effect whatever on lead; but it’s equally worthless for removing iron oxide!  Any product described as “safe, non-toxic,” think useless.  (Just like “EPA approved.”)

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6657
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
11
November 30, 2022 - 3:35 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1892takedown said You should be able to get a 2″ group or better at 50 yards if the bore and ammo cooperate. 
  

Plenty good for stopping those ferocious feral hogs!

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 37
Member Since:
February 12, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
November 30, 2022 - 4:39 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1892takedown said

jertex said

I don’t see the bulge in the pic or on the rifle but there is a slight bend in the magazine tube, so maybe that’s what you’re seeing.

  

In the bore pic, it looks like there is a ring in the barrel 2-3 inches from the muzzle, whether its a ring, a bulge, or just crud I can only guess.  Only cleaning will tell.  If it is a slight bulge, you will likely only see a waviness on the outside barrel flats when viewed at an angle down the flats of the barrel in the right lighting.  As Clarence mentioned, get the bore cleaned and try it out at 50 yards.  You should be able to get a 2″ group or better at 50 yards if the bore and ammo cooperate. 

  

I see what you mean, it appears to be crud to me but we’ll find out once I get it it properly cleaned.

Jerry

I'm more of a shooter than a collector, but I do have a few collectibles.

Philippians 1:6

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6657
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
13
November 30, 2022 - 3:17 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

jertex said

I see what you mean, it appears to be crud to me but we’ll find out once I get it it properly cleaned.

  

Finding out what that “crud” actually is should help to know how best to clean.  Since almost all factory ammo was loaded with jacketed bullets, it probably isn’t lead.  If it’s possible to scrape out some particles of that deposit with a rod or wire, you should be able to see right away if it’s rust.   

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4739
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
November 30, 2022 - 6:23 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Do as the rest have said.  Clean the barrel.  Find a solvent that removes lead, powder and copper.  Soak it for at least 24 hrs. Then use a wet nylon brush and scrub the barrel at least 20 strokes back and forth. Make sure to let the brush come all the way out on each stroke so it can realign the bristles to go the other directions.  Follow up with patches until clean.  Soak it a second time if needed.  Buy some Iosso brushes from someone like Brownells.  These are really stiff.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/brushes-amp-bore-snakes/bore-brushes/iosso-nyflex-rifle-bore-brushes-prod54388.aspx

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6657
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
15
November 30, 2022 - 8:28 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Chuck said   Buy some Iosso brushes from someone like Brownells.  These are really stiff.
https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/brushes-amp-bore-snakes/bore-brushes/iosso-nyflex-rifle-bore-brushes-prod54388.aspx

  

Chuck, if the bore is as badly obstructed as it appears to be, he’d be wiser to use one of these, unless he wants to make this chore his whole winter’s preoccupation (considering his location, I mean “winter” figuratively): https://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/brushes-amp-bore-snakes/bore-brushes/rifle-handgun-tornado-brush-38-357-cal–sku699001038-9791-25294.aspx?cm_mmc=cse-_-Itwine-_-shopzilla-_-699-001-038&cnxclid=16698392870534730873810070302008005

Neither it, nor the stiffest brass brush he could find, is going to damage the bore of a match quality target rifle, which a much neglected old ’94 is far from being.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4739
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
November 30, 2022 - 8:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Clarence, I guess I like being a little more cautious.  I use these a lot.  They are really intended to be used with Iosso bore paste.  Iosso is just like JB bore  paste.  There is a product now that is a liquid with Iosso paste in it.  It is called Thorro Clean.  This stuff works well and the liquid part foams up so it gets into all the nooks and cracks.

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6657
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
17
November 30, 2022 - 9:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Clarence, I guess I like being a little more cautious.  I use these a lot.  They are really intended to be used with Iosso bore paste.  Iosso is just like JB bore  paste. Chuck said

  

I have a very old tube of the Iosso paste, but for some reason never used it.  (Probably dried up by now.)  It, or JB’s, would be good to apply to a brush, but with a bore in this condition, it’s a little late to worry about “caution.”

Avatar
Texas
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 36
Member Since:
January 9, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
December 1, 2022 - 12:41 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

jertex said
I picked up a 1913 1914 (thanks for the correct date, Bert) model 1894 in 30 WCF a couple of years ago as a bundled deal with an excellent condition 1887 Colt Lightning. If I wanted the Lightning, I had to buy the 1894. Well, I sold the Lightning and did well on it and now I have this 1894 that has a gunked up barrel. I’m guessing that it is mostly leading and has the expected frosting. Overall, the rifling seems very nice on this rifle except at the last 2-3″ near the muzzle. It needs very little work on the action, but I’m not sure it’s worth putting any money into it. I’ve posted a couple of pics. I tried to show the barrel condition as best I could, but I’m not sure the pic shows enough to help. I’d like some opinions and it would be great if there was a member in the D/FW area that I could meet and for an evaluation. I don’t have much money in the gun and it might just end up as a wall hanger. All thoughts and opinions are welcome.

Winchester-1927-model-1894-bore.jpgImage EnlargerWinchester-1927-model-1894-1.jpgImage Enlarger

  

If it were me, I would do a Complete tear down, check all components and do a Proper cleaning, if You have the skill set and proper tools or know someone that does. It’s Not a job for the timid. 

By the looks of the bore I wouldn’t try cleaning that barrel from the muzzle end. Most of what’s in that barrel will end up in the receiver and if you’re Not doing a complete tear down “I” Wouldn’t recommend that, especially if you plan on firing that 94. And “I” would want to fire that 94!

If you don’t want or care to fire it “I” would leave it as is with just an outside care session with a  100% cotton cloth and a dab of food grade mineral oil. And contrary to popular opinions, get some toothpicks and clean that dead skin out of those screw slots.  

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5276
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
December 1, 2022 - 2:56 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I’m thinking the bore may be one of the best features of this old rifle but getting in a hurry to clean it up may be the best way to ruin it. Soak, gentle scrub, patch, repeat. I like Kroil and Hoppes, haven’t seen Iosso in years but may be worth a try. I see some good definition on the lands and I’d be willing to invest the time in seeing what’s under those decades of crud. Cradle it finger lever up or muzzle down while soaking, scrub in a cradle with action open, lever up. Just takes a few minutes a day, who cares if it takes a few weeks?

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4739
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
December 1, 2022 - 6:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
I’m thinking the bore may be one of the best features of this old rifle but getting in a hurry to clean it up may be the best way to ruin it. Soak, gentle scrub, patch, repeat. I like Kroil and Hoppes, haven’t seen Iosso in years but may be worth a try. I see some good definition on the lands and I’d be willing to invest the time in seeing what’s under those decades of crud. Cradle it finger lever up or muzzle down while soaking, scrub in a cradle with action open, lever up. Just takes a few minutes a day, who cares if it takes a few weeks?

 

Mike

  

I agree with Mike.  I don’t tear down guns unless it is really needed.  Use Gun Scrubber spray then a good spray cleaner like Breakfree CLP and most often this will be enough for the internals.  I use Shooters Choice MC 7 to remove the crud.  You may have to use it more than once.  Like Mike said, clean the gun upside down so the crud will fall out and not into the receiver.  Use a brass bore guide when cleaning from the muzzle.  Once it is as clean as you can get it then post pictures and let us see if you can go forward.  I highly recommend the Iosso brushes. 

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Online: cj57, 1873man, pdog72, mrcvs, deerhunter, clarence, Jim McKee, 86Win, Jones68, Paul K
Guest(s) 165
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6657
TXGunNut: 5276
Chuck: 4739
steve004: 4410
1873man: 4369
Big Larry: 2384
twobit: 2326
mrcvs: 1804
TR: 1742
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 13043
Posts: 114160

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1820
Members: 9007
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation