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December 9, 2002
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Chuck said
1873man said
Chuck,
Glad you got the box in good condition shipped by the Randy Express. I’m happy with the upgrade.
Bob
I think you sent me the wrong box.
Hey Chuck, if he sent you the wrong box, I’d be more than happy to help you out in you’re unhappy, situation! LOL! 
Good stuff guy’s, as we can appreciate the camaraderie, that goes into this great hobby.
Anthony
March 31, 2009
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Anthony said
Chuck,
Congrats on those very hard to find boxes. Those look like the Boxer type primers by John Gardner.(1874-1876, I think, which makes sense to me,at that time)
Do those have the grease groove also?
These UN-stamped cartridge heads are preferred by many, as you’re well aware of. I don’t think it was too long after these we’re mfg. that Winchester started to stamp the cartridge heads, as I’m thinking they we’re in such a rush to get these cartridges out, with all the problems the Milbank primer created, and delayed the release of the first M-1873’s, later in that year, and it wasn’t until 1874 that Winchester was able to deliver their M-1873 with pride, as there wasn’t the time for tooling up, to stamp the cartridge heads, to provide ammunition for Winchesters new rifle design of, “The Gun that Won the West”!
Some more close ups, of the cartridges and some clearer pics would be great, when you find time.
Thanks for sharing!
Anthony
These are the O. F. Winchester Patent primers. But it is my belief that Gardner, an employee of Winchester, actually developed these and Winchester owned the Patent. It is hard to see with these oxidized bullets but Version 2 has a groove visible above the case mouth whereas the first Version does not.
February 11, 2018
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What I have learned about old corroded (BP) bullets is that the base corrodes and pushes the bullet out of the case…just like the one you posted.
February 11, 2018
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Here is an example…that is not a white card, it is corrosion.
March 31, 2009
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Bryan Austin said
What I have learned about old corroded (BP) bullets is that the base corrodes and pushes the bullet out of the case…just like the one you posted.
Thanks, I did find 1 case that is split. All the others show the same ring but some are more corroded.
December 9, 2002
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Chuck said
Anthony said
Chuck,
Congrats on those very hard to find boxes. Those look like the Boxer type primers by John Gardner.(1874-1876, I think, which makes sense to me,at that time)
Do those have the grease groove also?
These UN-stamped cartridge heads are preferred by many, as you’re well aware of. I don’t think it was too long after these we’re mfg. that Winchester started to stamp the cartridge heads, as I’m thinking they we’re in such a rush to get these cartridges out, with all the problems the Milbank primer created, and delayed the release of the first M-1873’s, later in that year, and it wasn’t until 1874 that Winchester was able to deliver their M-1873 with pride, as there wasn’t the time for tooling up, to stamp the cartridge heads, to provide ammunition for Winchesters new rifle design of, “The Gun that Won the West”!
Some more close ups, of the cartridges and some clearer pics would be great, when you find time.
Thanks for sharing!
Anthony
These are the O. F. Winchester Patent primers. But it is my belief that Gardner, an employee of Winchester, actually developed these and Winchester owned the Patent. It is hard to see with these oxidized bullets but Version 2 has a groove visible above the case mouth whereas the first Version does not.
Chuck,
Good pictures showing and explaining what you found!
Bryan Austin said
What I have learned about old corroded (BP) bullets is that the base corrodes and pushes the bullet out of the case…just like the one you posted.
Bryan,
I am in agreement with you’re findings, as I can understand what you’re saying, but in all reality, I didn’t take the time to understand how this was occurring. I also have found these issues with the older cartridges, and pessimistically with the B/P cartridges, that we enjoy, and collect as the History is tremendously attractive to many of us!
Anthony
March 31, 2009
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Anthony said
Bryan Austin said
What I have learned about old corroded (BP) bullets is that the base corrodes and pushes the bullet out of the case…just like the one you posted.
Bryan,
I am in agreement with you’re findings, as I can understand what you’re saying, but in all reality, I didn’t take the time to understand how this was occurring. I also have found these issues with the older cartridges, and pessimistically with the B/P cartridges, that we enjoy, and collect as the History is tremendously attractive to many of us!
Anthony
Many smokeless cartridges up to WW II can often be found with split necks and holes in the case. Corrosive primers and corrosive powder.
December 9, 2002
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Chuck said
Anthony said
Bryan Austin said
What I have learned about old corroded (BP) bullets is that the base corrodes and pushes the bullet out of the case…just like the one you posted.
Bryan,
I am in agreement with you’re findings, as I can understand what you’re saying, but in all reality, I didn’t take the time to understand how this was occurring. I also have found these issues with the older cartridges, and pessimistically with the B/P cartridges, that we enjoy, and collect as the History is tremendously attractive to many of us!
Anthony
Many smokeless cartridges up to WW II can often be found with split necks and holes in the case. Corrosive primers and corrosive powder.
I’m in agreement with you Chuck! Especially the corrosive primers, as in later years even with the Non-Smokeless powder, the Non-Corrosive Primers, we’re labeled accordingly, and for a well known reason!
Anthony
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