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Forgot to say this is the Center Fire version. Does anyone have any information on this cartridge? Dan Shuey’s book says it is for a Maynard. Winchester catalogs say Maynard and Remington. I know I saw some information somewhere but I have no idea where.
Chuck,
The only cartridge I can think of was the 22 Stevens (22-15-60).
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
The only cartridge I can think of was the 22 Stevens (22-15-60).
That was a much longer cartridge–case alone is 2 in.
Maynard chambered a .22-10 CF, but don’t know case length.
My point was that I am not aware of any Winchester rifles chambered for a “22 Ex Long center fire”. There were not any Model 1885 Single Shot rifles made in such cartridge, and that would have been the only model.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
My point was that I am not aware of any Winchester rifles chambered for a “22 Ex Long center fire”. There were not any Model 1885 Single Shot rifles made in such cartridge, and that would have been the only model.
Bert
You are right. Winchester never made a gun to shoot this round. They just loaded it. Both Dan Shuey and Ray Giles have very limited knowledge of this round. I am trying to buy the sealed box from my friend. He showed the box and a single round to Dan. I need to talk more to Dan because he says he was shocked to see a brass primer?? This ammo is listed in the February 1890 Catalog and last listed in the 1921 Catalog.
Bullet dia. given by the Ideal Hand Book for the Ex. Long CF is .228″, 45 g. If so, it’s an entirely different cartridge from the E.L. RF, which uses the same dia. bullet as the other .22 RFs; in fact, the Long Rifle is supposed to have been developed by seating a 40 g. E.L. bullet in a Long case.
Chuck said
The 22 WCF uses a .228 bullet too.
The very reason I never wanted one.
clarence said
The very reason I never wanted one.
.228 is easy to find and no harder to load than any other center fire. I can get 100 lead bullets for less than $20.
Chuck said
Forgot to say this is the Center Fire version. Does anyone have any information on this cartridge? Dan Shuey’s book says it is for a Maynard. Winchester catalogs say Maynard and Remington. I know I saw some information somewhere but I have no idea where.
Only information I have is from the Charles T. Haven manuscript and is as follows:
The .22 Extra Long Center Fire
The smallest of the old type black powder rifle cartridges is the .22 straight cased, extra long, center fire, developed for Maynard single shot target rifles. This was put out by the Winchester Company in a black powder load in 1890 and in Lesmok powder in 1911. The load was 8 grains of black powder with a 45 grain lead bullet and it was considered an excellent target cartridge of its period.
Catalog pages lists,
22 Ex LONG C.F.
Adapted to Maynard Rifles
Cartridges per 1,000, $13.00
Primed shells …… ” ” $9.00
Bullets (45 grains) ” ” $2.50
Powder ………… 8 grains.
Cartridge packed 2,000 in a case
So there you go.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Has anyone seen a document that lists the calibers for the 1885 that was prepared by William L. Porter? The list is pages 55-57 of some document. Porter was a research assistant for Winchester Arms.
Chuck said
Has anyone seen a document that lists the calibers for the 1885 that was prepared by William L. Porter? The list is pages 55-57 of some document. Porter was a research assistant for Winchester Arms.
Wonder if it could be same as the list in Campbell’s Vol 1; if it was on file at the museum, he would have found it.
clarence said
Wonder if it could be same as the list in Campbell’s Vol 1; if it was on file at the museum, he would have found it.
Clarence, I have Campbell’s books and he does not list this cartridge. According to a friend Bob Michaels has an 85 in 22 Ex Long centerfire. I have not talked to Bob so I can’t verify this, yet.
Chuck,
I have a copy of Bill Porter’s caliber survey… it has a number of errors in it though. He completed it in the early 1990s, and it was published by the CFM in the ARMAX for a few years, but has since been pulled due to it having known errors. Back in the Fall of 2004, I began a new (accurate) detailed survey of the warehouse ledger records to develop a new Single Shot caliber/cartridge listing. I completed it several years ago. What I am working on now, is surveying all of the calibers/cartridges found in the 110000 – 140000 serial number range.
With that stated, I did not find any Single Shot rifle listed that was factory chambered for the 22 EX Long C.F. cartridge. I suspect Bob has a rifle with a reworked barrel/chamber.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Bert. My friend has a 3 page list that must have come from the survey you mention. I am going to contact Bob.
Chuck,
I have a clean copy of Porter’s survey I can send you via email, but keep in mind that it is not accurate. I need to do some touch up additions to my own rendition of the caliber survey. I have been thinking about writing a short article for the Collector magazine and including my survey document in it.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert, I would like a clean copy of the list with your corrections noted on it. Is the list in Ray Giles and Dan Shuey’s book correct? If not what is in error or missing?
On another 85 note, I tried to text you while I was in Cody. There was an 85 that was chambered for a 45 3-1/4″ Sharps cartridge. Gun was mostly black and in rough shape. I went back to look at it again and it was gone. How many of these were made? I can’t remember the caliber stamp but it might have said Sharps?
Chuck,
! have a clean copy of Porter’s survey, but it is a PDF document, which does not lend itself to adding my corrections to it. I have my survey in a MS Word (table) document. In regards to your question about the list in Ray Gile’s and Dan Shuey’s book, I do not have a copy of it, and therefore cannot answer that question.
In regards to the 45 SHARPS 3 ¾”, Porter listed (26) of them made. My survey of the factory records found (30) of them listed. See the attached picture.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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