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What would it be worth?
April 3, 2019
11:29 pm
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To All;

   A  question to everyone reading this. In your opinion what would you, as a Winchester Collector, willingly pay for a Winchester Model 1873 that was a "Special Order rifle" made by Winchester for the shootist Annie Oakley? This if in fact at minimum could be photographically authenticated as being one of her "Show Rifles" made especially for her? All WACA "tire kickers" opinions welcomed.

Apache ( Ya Ta Hey )WinkWinkCool

April 3, 2019
11:52 pm
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I believe the only way you will get a true valuation would be to send it to one of the large auction houses with the proper provenance and authentication. The highest bidder will then tell you the value...…  Any dollar amount guessed would purely be speculation. One of a kind items have their own precedent and it boils down to who is willing to pay the most money for one of "Annies" rifles.

 

Best regards

 

Erin

April 4, 2019
1:22 am
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Erin;

    In that I agree, however I'm very curious what Winchester Collectors would pay for the "Genuine" article if it were to come their way. The key word here is "Genuine". In other words, were you to find a photograph depicting Annie holding the rifle in question, and you were offered the SAME rifle depicted in the photo, what would you feel comfortable in paying for a "One of a Kind" 1873 once owned by A.O.? Thank you for your response.

Apache ( ya ta hey )ConfusedConfusedConfusedCool

April 4, 2019
2:38 am
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Apache,

For me personally the rifle would not have much outstanding increased value.  BUT... I have no great admiration for AO and therefore items tied to her are not of especially great interest to me.  Thus not greatly valued.  That is the what will drive the potential value of a rifle tied to her.  Some will go "Oh Wow!" others will go "Ho hum."

Michael 

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

April 4, 2019
3:15 am
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twobit said
Apache,

For me personally the rifle would not have much outstanding increased value.  BUT... I have no great admiration for AO and therefore items tied to her are not of especially great interest to me.  Thus not greatly valued.  That is the what will drive the potential value of a rifle tied to her.  Some will go "Oh Wow!" others will go "Ho hum."

Michael   

"Ho hum" to one of the most remarkable--and courageous--women in American history?  I'd hide my head in shame if that was what I truly thought about her. 

April 4, 2019
3:27 am
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This question should be more poised to the collectors who could afford something like that.  For us regular joes that number doesnt exist.   That  being said, if money is no object then there is no dollar figure. That person would pay anything to have it.

April 4, 2019
1:00 pm
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My best answer is that it’s worth whatever someone will pay for it and that’s far more than I’d be willing to pay. I’m a fan of Annie Oakley but I feel there are several rifles already in collections that are linked to her. IIRC manufacturers, including Winchester, built a few rifles for her and many more were probably presented to her by others. Hard to say how many “Annie Oakley” rifles are out there yet to be discovered or marketed as such. 

I think an auction house with an aggressive marketing effort combined with at least two interested and well-heeled bidders will give you the best answer to your question, good luck!

 

Mike

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April 4, 2019
2:51 pm
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I would think the strength of the provenance would have a significant impact upon the value of the rifle.  If there is no written documentation linking the rifle to AO and the only provenance is photographic, the photographs would have to be compelling.  Most collectors would hesitate to shell out big bucks for a rifle if they feel they're taking a "leap of faith" in buying a celebrity owned firearm.  I'm not saying this gun lacks sound provenance, but without seeing the provenance, it's very difficult to speculate on its value.  I think it would help to get a more accurate answer to your question if you were to share any provenance you have for the rifle.  I also agree with Erin that your best answer may come from a large auction house who regularly deals with these kinds of guns and investors with the money it takes to buy them.

April 4, 2019
5:51 pm
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To All;

    Thanks to all of you for responding to my question on the possible value of an A.O. special ordered rifle. A bit of history is needed here. When A.O. went to England to show her shooting prowess she at first didn't perform as well as expected. A special fitted shotgun was made up for her and her performance improved ten fold. Upon her return to the U.S. she then wanted the firearms that she would purchase for the arena to be fitted as was the English firearm. I've found a photograph taken of her and her husband with what I think is one of these Winchester rifles. Does anyone out in "Never, Never Land" have any of the Winchester Special Order information pertaining to Winchester rifles (Smoothbores) ordered by A.O.? It just may be possible that the 32/20 S.B. that I have is the same firearm depicted in the photograph. The shape of the stock on the firearm in the photo is very different from any other Winchester 1873 stock I've ever seen. It's not a "Pistol Grip" stock, but definitely not a "Standard" straight stock either. The '73 in the photo would have to have been a Special Order.

Apache ( ya ta hey ) SurprisedSurprisedConfusedConfused

April 4, 2019
6:27 pm
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Can you post the photo's of your rifles stock and the one of Annie holding it for us to scrutinize ?

Best,

Erin

April 4, 2019
6:36 pm
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Erin;

     Most "Old Time" WACA members have seen my '73 Smoothbore at a number of shows, and know the configuration of the stock. I will however try to figure out how to post the photo of A.O. and her husband with her '73 S.B. on this site.

Apache ( ya ta hey )SmileSmileCool

April 4, 2019
7:06 pm
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Why do we get such stupid questions as these?  Everyone knows darn well that something will bring only what someone is willing to pay for it, and the best venue for something like this is an auction.  If it is what it is, it will bring the big bucks.  If, like most, it's a "story", then it won't.  Apache should just put it up for auction...and hope for the best!

April 5, 2019
3:33 am
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To All;

   Please allow me to convey my apologies to all the members of this forum, especially to MRCVS for my utter lack of intellect. Although I'm well aware, probably more than most that any item regardless of its rarity or condition, especially in this market, is only worth what someone would be willing to pay for it. I thought it would be interesting though to see what WACA members would consider a fair value for such an item as I described in this thread. I'll try in the future not to repeat what is obviously the asking of stupid questions. Thank you for the interesting responses.

Apache ( ya ta hey )EmbarassedEmbarassedCryCry

April 5, 2019
3:50 am
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Apache,

If you really want the members estimate you have to supply all the information so someone can make a intelligent estimate. You have to supply good pictures of the gun and the pictures you are trying to match it up from AO and any other documentation. Otherwise its like buying a car sight unseen but don't be surprised by the results you get. The best people to ask are the people that do this for a living which was mentioned here before, the auction house.

Bob

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Email: bob.1873man@gmail.com

April 7, 2019
5:00 pm
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Bob (1873 man);

    I'm well aware on how to pricing via the auction route as I had been in the Gun business for over forty years. Given the parameters that I gave I was merely curious as to what the WACA members on this sight would say. Their replies ranged from cordial to the usual insults from MRCVS. I've no intention of selling anything quite so valuable on this site, and would go the auction route when I do sell. I've been off this site for about two years before getting back on. I see little has changed. Thank you for your valuable insight in how to get the actual price on anything one sells.

Apache (ya ta hey )LaughLaughLaughLaughCoolCool

April 7, 2019
6:18 pm
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We all know what they say about opinions.  So when a body asks for them, they're going to get them. 

On the other hand, I offered an opinion on an engraved 66 when no opinion was asked for.  I never said anyone said it was factory engraved, nor did say no gun was ever engraved outside the factory.  I simply said it did not appear to be factory engraved to me.  Nevertheless, you'd have thought I pissed in somebody's canteen.  But when you put something out there, you have to expect comment.  We can't all get what we want to hear.

I'm with twobit.  I have no interest in AO. 

I wouldn't even want a gun owned by Wild Bill Hickok if he never used it in a fight.  Teddy Roosevelt has a nice 86 but, well, ho hum as far as I'm concerned.  If I owned any of these guns, I'd sell them and buy a bunch of brown relics with no history simply because they *might* have history.  If I buy a lottery ticket, I get more joy out of it *before* checking the the numbers.  Because, well, just maybe . . . Laugh

So, a proven fight gun, I'd like to have.  After all, the "old west" and guns aren't interesting to me for shooting grouse, deer or glass balls. I'd rather have one that might have been in a fight.  

But that's just my opinion.  Take it for what was paid for it.

April 7, 2019
6:49 pm
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Huck Riley wrote:

We can't all get what we want to hear.

Let's all sing along with Mick!!!!

 

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

April 7, 2019
7:18 pm
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apache said
Bob (1873 man);

    I'm well aware on how to pricing via the auction route as I had been in the Gun business for over forty years...Their replies ranged from cordial to the usual insults from MRCVS. I've no intention of selling anything quite so valuable on this site, and would go the auction route when I do sell. I've been off this site for about two years before getting back on. I see little has changed. Thank you for your valuable insight in how to get the actual price on anything one sells.

Apache (ya ta hey )LaughLaughLaughLaughCoolCool  

If you have been in the business for over 40 years and know how auctions work, then why even waste your time and ask a question you already know the answer to?

You might think I am insulting you, but I am willing to step up and call BS a lot of what you write.  You always have the best, the greatest, etc., no matter what it is.  Never any detailed photographs, grates on my nerves, surely grates on most everyone else's.  You come across as nothing short of a snake oil salesman.

Off this site for 2 years?  No doubt you were sorely missed!

April 7, 2019
7:26 pm
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Huck Riley;

   Good to hear from a man that know what he wants. So you say you want a real "Western Fighting" firearm? I have just what the doctor ordered, but do you have the ammunition for it? In other words "Do you walk the walk, or just talk the talk"? I would be happy to satisfy your need for a real "Western Fighting Gun". The firearm I'm offering you is a Winchester Model 1866 that took part in two of the most famous Indian verses Cavalry battles of the 19th Century. This Winchester '66 carbine is known by collectors world wide. It can now be yours for only $175,000,00.  What do you say, Huck, shall I wrap it up for you, or are we just talking wishes, would like, maybe, perhaps or what ever?

   I'll now stop replying to this thread as it's getting a bit too heavy in its back and forth. Thanks all for your opinions that I indeed did ask for.

Apache ( ya ta hey )WinkWinkWinkCoolCool

April 7, 2019
7:36 pm
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apache said
So you say you want a real "Western Fighting" firearm? I have just what the doctor ordered, but do you have the ammunition for it? In other words "Do you walk the walk, or just talk the talk"? I would be happy to satisfy your need for a real "Western Fighting Gun". The firearm I'm offering you is a Winchester Model 1866 that took part in two of the most famous Indian verses Cavalry battles of the 19th Century. This Winchester '66 carbine is known by collectors world wide. It can now be yours for only $175,000,00.  What do you say, Huck, shall I wrap it up for you, or are we just talking wishes, would like, maybe, perhaps or what ever?

See what I mean?  I rest my case.

Please excuse me while I go and vomit.

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