The Beginning Of The Browning/Winchester Relationship|General Discussions & Questions|Forum|Winchester Collector

Kirk,

That’s a very nice find. Not all of the Single Shots had the Browning Brothers identification on them, even though they made and used more than one stamp, with different variations on them. These rifles we’re made by hand as was the tooling to do so. 

The, what looks like an,”O”, stamp on the left sided flat, under the patent date, is interesting to me. As is also, what looks like, “530”,(serial #530) on the top flat in front of the receiver. We aren’t accustomed to seeing the serial number here! The amount of bluing on the barrel, is also pretty amazing to see. 

As we know there’s not a lot of information out there on these, as one of the only 600 manufactured original S. S. rifles. The Borchardt style lever, and as you mentioned, the “double set”, triggers, and the cleaning rod underneath, are sure scarce.

This example has a larger metal style crescent butt, for the times when shooters we’re smaller in stature.

The “Thick Side ” round top receiver, is always a very attractive looking feature to me on these. 

It was a very well known fact back in the day, that a heavy barrel rifle shot better! Hence the heavy barrel. It was not uncommon for these to weigh 16 pounds or more.

It’s well known and documented in Campbell’s books that the wrist area was changed by Winchester with the degree of the wood to metal fit, bu changing the angle on the metal receiver, and also strengthening the, “S”, shaped style point of contact. Amongst other changes that Winchester made to the M-1885 S.S.

It’s not well known what rear sights we’re used on these, as the “Fruend”, sight was also used on some of these and are characteristically longer than what most of us are accustomed to, as far as the Winchester rear rifle sights the we see. 

With less than 100 known to exist, approximately 60 are documented today to be in existence, or at least found.

Thanks for sharing,

Tony

antler1 said
What years were Browning brothers stamping any model of Winchester that were sold thru their shop?
  

I don’t think there’s much in print answering you’re question, but we do know in reading several accounts on the dealings of JMB, and Winchester, that upon purchasing the patent for the first of JMB’s, 127 patents, he would take Winchesters on trade for partial payment, as early as the very first patent date of Oct. 7, 1879, and through out the late 1800’s and into the early 1900’s we see some of the “Browning Brothers stamp’s” that we’re offered in a few different variants, on different Winchester models, that a few members here have shared.

Tony

Shrapnel said
It is what brought Thomas Bennet out to Ogden, Utah to the Browning Brothers shop to secure the rights to produce the rifle, which would become the Winchester Model 1885.
 

Technically what brought out V.P. T.G. Bennet to Utah was to settle a dispute over a Reloading Tool patent infringement over (W..R.A.Co.) Superintendent V.A. King’s 1880 Reloading Tool and Browning’s Reloading Tool. They settled on an agreement to allow Browning Brothers to finish producing 125 Sets of Tools that Browning had on hand. While settling this agreement over the reloading tool another deal was struck between Winchester & Browning over the Single Shot and other designs. That lead to a long term relationship with Browning and Winchester until the final falling out between them.

Sincerely,

Maverick

This is a picture of Browning’s S.S. rifle #196, that is seen on the Browning Historic Timeline page. 

https://www.browning.com/support/historic-timeline.html

Tony

antler1 said

Bert H. said

antler1 said
What years were Browning brothers stamping any model of Winchester that were sold thru their shop?
  

Late 1885 through at least 1906.
Bert
  

This is one of the reasons I asked. It seems late in production to have a legit Browning Bros stamp.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4098/26/browning-bros-marked-winchester-model-1894-rifle
  

The rifle in question that you mention being mfg. in 1907, is very close to the end that Bert has mentioned. (1885-1906) Here’s a picture of the stamps that have been found in regards to the Browning Brothers stamp variants, from Madis Book. I tried to use the smallest image and the least bytes but it still turned sideways. Anyway the 5 th stamp down from the top looks like the one on the 1907 mfg. M-1894. 

I’m not saying that the stamp is original or it’s correct, as there’s not a lot of printed material or information on these as far as I know. Bert can possibly add more. We have to remember that these we’re applied by hand and maybe individually, as the beginning of the Browning stamp is double struck and hard to read. I’m not sure if stamps are in the Browning museum in Ogden, that could be verified as I’ve never been there. 

My guess is this could be correct. Just a guess!

Tony