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April 15, 2005
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antler1 said
Bert H. said
antler1 said
What years were Browning brothers stamping any model of Winchester that were sold thru their shop?
Late 1885 through at least 1906.
Bert
This is one of the reasons I asked. It seems late in production to have a legit Browning Bros stamp.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/4098/26/browning-bros-marked-winchester-model-1894-rifle
Pat,
The marking on that rifle is legit, but based on the position of the Browning marking, it was not one of the Patent payment guns shipped directly to Browning. Instead, it is a rifle that was brought to Ogden to be serviced by Browning after it was originally shipped out west. The serial number “348938” identifies it as an April 1907 production rifle.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 12, 2013
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Thanks for all the info. I couldn’t find the Browning Bros stamps in my Maddis book but I’m not a very astute reader
March 31, 2009
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Bert H. said
To the best of my knowledge, none have been verified with a serial number greater than 536. I suspect that the total number that were made was something very close to 550.
That display in 1997 was the same collector that set up his display at the Cody show just a few years later. I spent more than 4-hours at the WACA show display talking to the fellow. Unfortunately, I believe that he has since passed away.
Bert
I will try to find the small note about the quantity made.
November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
TXGunNut said
Looking at that stamp I wonder if it passed through the Browning Brothers’ shop more than once.
Mike
Doubtful. The stamped markings on it are correct for a late 1882 or early 1883 Browning Single Shot rifle. The markings on it are identical to those on serial number 536.
Bert
Thanks, I was thinking they might have used “U.T.” for Utah Territory instead of “Utah” for the early guns. Haven’t been able to discover when they used the stamps we see. I was thinking a resale of the gun as a trade-in might explain what I thought was a later stamp.
Mike
April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
Bert H. said
TXGunNut said
Looking at that stamp I wonder if it passed through the Browning Brothers’ shop more than once.
Mike
Doubtful. The stamped markings on it are correct for a late 1882 or early 1883 Browning Single Shot rifle. The markings on it are identical to those on serial number 536.
Bert
Thanks, I was thinking they might have used “U.T.” for Utah Territory instead of “Utah” for the early guns. Haven’t been able to discover when they used the stamps we see. I was thinking a resale of the gun as a trade-in might explain what I thought was a later stamp.
Mike
There are at least four different Browning markings that I have verified on Browning Single Shot and Winchester Single Shot rifles.
This is Browning Single Shot #536. As you can see, it is nearly identical to the rifle Kirk acquired at Cody last month.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 9, 2002
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BERT SAID,
Are there any additional pictures of #196? The link you provided has just the single picture.
Bert,
Here are more pics of #196.
December 9, 2002
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#196
April 15, 2005
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Anthony said
BERT SAID,
Are there any additional pictures of #196? The link you provided has just the single picture.
Bert,
Here are more pics of #196.
Please send me the full size pictures.
I question the serial number placement, but anything could have happened back in those days.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 9, 2002
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Bert H. said
Anthony said
BERT SAID,
Are there any additional pictures of #196? The link you provided has just the single picture.
Bert,
Here are more pics of #196.
Please send me the full size pictures.
I question the serial number placement, but anything could have happened back in those days.
Bert
Bert,
The serial number is on the top flat in front of the small rectangular piece of Silver inlay, and on the right side flat on the side of the barrel.
Tony
December 9, 2002
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April 15, 2005
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Anthony said
Thanks, those are better. Are there any pictures of the top flat of the barrel forward of the rear sight?
I have to wonder what the rectangular silver colored piece was for?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 13, 2010
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As far as Browning Brothers stamps, here is one from 1887. It is on a model 1886 I have that was made in 1887…
December 9, 2002
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Shrapnel said
As far as Browning Brothers stamps, here is one from 1887. It is on a model 1886 I have that was made in 1887…
Kirk,
I was hoping that you we’re going to add the picture of you’re 1886, and mfg. in 1887.
Bert H. said
Anthony said
Thanks, those are better. Are there any pictures of the top flat of the barrel forward of the rear sight?
I have to wonder what the rectangular silver colored piece was for?
Bert
Bert,
Sometimes the pics don’t seem to cooperate with how I send them as far as size and such. I know we spoke of it in the past, as I’m a work in progress. I looked in the archives, and I don’t see, any pics of what might be available to you’re asking, of the top of the barrel flat in front of the rear sight. I do know that it was plain with no markings of any kind, as it’s in my notes also. This rifle that I traded for 15 years ago from LeRoy Merz, and traded back to him, 2 years ago, both agree we aren’t sure what the silver piece of a small rectangular shape, inlaid in the barrel might be for. He suggested maybe someone’s initials, which made sense to me at the time, and still does.
Several pictures are shown of the long 4 5/8 ths. rear sight that LeRoy thought it might be “Fruend”, made sight.It doesn’t look like the “Fruend More Light sight” that was well published, but it’s different that what we’re normally accustomed to. The elevator was missing and a piece of wood was made and installed a long time before I received it.
There is no stamp anywhere on this rifle with the Browning Brothers of any kind on it. Which surprised me, as it did Merz, at the time when I got it from him. Had to be mfg around 1883, when the Brothers we’re swamped with orders, besides the business of T. G. Bennett, showing up at their shop in Ogden, Utah. I’m guessing they we’re possibly to busy, and forgot to stamp a “Browning Brother’s” logo on it. Who knows maybe JMB, and his brother Mathew weren’t in the shop at the time, and they were short handed. Gotta do a little imagining. That’s part of the fun of collecting! 
Tony
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, Kirk. It would make sense to me to see the “U.T.” on your recently acquired Single Shot but this case illustrates how collectors may put too much thought into something that may not have seemed important at the time. Obviously the Browning Brothers had more than one stamp. It makes sense to me that Browning would switch to the “Utah” stamp after Utah became a state but obviously that wasn’t the case. As Tony points out stuff like this makes collecting fun.
Mike
April 15, 2005
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Tony,
Did you ever take the forend stock off to see what (if anything) might have been stamped on the underneath (non-exposed) section of the barrel?
Does Leroy still have this rifle?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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Here is a note posted in one of the single shot books.
March 31, 2009
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I know this is not related to the Browning rifles but I thought it to be interesting.
This is a Dwg of an 1885 that Pope modified so it could fire rim fire or center fire. Just turn the slot.
December 9, 2002
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Bert H. said
Tony,
Did you ever take the forend stock off to see what (if anything) might have been stamped on the underneath (non-exposed) section of the barrel?
Does Leroy still have this rifle?
Bert
Bert,
No I did not!
I’m not sure if He still has it or not.
Tony
April 15, 2005
Online
Anthony said
Bert H. said
Tony,
Did you ever take the forend stock off to see what (if anything) might have been stamped on the underneath (non-exposed) section of the barrel?
Does Leroy still have this rifle?
Bert
Bert,
No I did not!
I’m not sure if He still has it or not.
Tony
Hmmm…
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 9, 2002
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Bert H. said
Anthony said
Bert H. said
Tony,
Did you ever take the forend stock off to see what (if anything) might have been stamped on the underneath (non-exposed) section of the barrel?
Does Leroy still have this rifle?
Bert
Bert,
No I did not!
I’m not sure if He still has it or not.
Tony
Hmmm…
Bert,
Crazy darn hobby we’re involved in here. This dog gone thing woke me up in the middle of the night, thinking about this. I had the Merz booklet, #116,(2012), out that the Browning rifle was listed in, and it states that #196 had a 32 inch barrel on it, which I had wrong. For some reason I remember a 50 stamp, indicating the caliber, but I don’t seem to have that picture, as I sure thought that I did. I do remember it was just a plain “50”, by itself on the barrel flat. Gotta keep looking. I’m not sure why I didn’t remove that for end wood, and look for anything more.
Edited; Going back and looking, I can see the “50”, on a slight angle between the silver inlay piece and the receiver, on thee top flat, of the barrel. That’s the best and only picture I have of that, as I just looked.
Tony
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