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The following 3 Winchesters were stolen in a burglary of my home on 16 December 1986 in Loudoun County, Virginia. I’m still looking for them, and am offering a reward of $500 each for information leading to the recovery of these guns.
(1) Model 1873, 38 WCF, octagonal barrel, full magazine, Serial number 406081B
(2) Model 1892, 44 WCF, saddle-ring carbine, Serial number 989117
(3) Model 64 Standard Rifle, 30 WCF Serial number 1372911
All 3 of these guns have been entered into the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) computer database.
The Loudoun County Sheriff’s Department case number is 107583.
You can contact me at [email protected]
Thank you for your assistance!
Hello James,
Too bad you did not post this several years ago. As it turns out, I most likely had my hands on your stolen Model 64. It is entered in my research survey, but I do not know where or when I saw it or recorded it. The good news, its that it is out there being circulated.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
Does CFM record issued letters & serial searches by serial numbers and person requested by ?
Bill
Blueliner said
Bert,
Does CFM record issued letters & serial searches by serial numbers and person requested by ?
Bill
I do not know if or how they track factory letters and serial number searches. You need to ask Jessica Bennett this question.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks, Bert and BlueLiner!
I’ll give Ms. Bennett a call tomorrow and find out what she will need (i.e. a letter or email from my local Sheriff’s Department) to check their files for inquiries on any of my stolen guns.
Best regards,
Jim Morris
I remember talking about stolen guns when Jessi was at the Tulsa show a number of years ago and she did say they did receive calls to keep a look out certain serial numbers often but she never said if they actually do anything about it. In recent years after they went to computers to fill out phone searches and letters, it would be very simple to keep a record of each search and letter. When they use to hand write phone searches they just might have a copy but it would be super time consuming to search them.
As a business stand point I would think it would have a negative impact on their business if it was known that anyone that calls or requests a letter is being checked against a list of stolen guns but on the other hand if you knew they had a list they might do more business if every time before a gun changed hands you called to make sure it wasn’t stolen. They would have to be open weekends to handle the gun show business.
What would be a persons recourse be if they did find they had a stolen gun? I know the cops would take it and after answering many question like where you got it you are out the money. The person you bought it from might stand behind it but if they don’t now you probable have to sue. If the gun cost less than a few thousand it might cost you more to hire a attorney so you end up taking it on the chin.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob…
Regarding your concern about what might happen if you find yourself “stuck” after buying a gun that turns out to have been stolen:
There’s an old saying in the law the “a thief can pass no title”. Basically, what this means is that a stolen item remains the property of the person from whom it was stolen, regardless of how many hands it has passed through.
If you buy a gun from me, and the gun turns out to have been stolen, then I am legally (and morally) obligated to repay you the money that you paid for the stolen gun. I’m sure that there are guys out there who would deny any liability in a case like that. I can hear them now: “I didn’t know it was stolen! You can’t blame me!”. Or “I never sold you that gun! You didn’t get it from me!”
An honorable man would refund your money. But we all know that there are some less-than-honorable members of the gun-collecting fraternity, and the sad fact is that a lawsuit would very likely be necessary to recover any money you lost.
I would guess most gun deals at shows or even conducted at a persons residents there was no receipt made out, it was a hand shake after the money was counted unless they took a check. Without a valid receipt it would be tough to prove you got it from that person.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
After around 30 years, you are looking for a needle in a haystack. Those Winchesters were probably sold at a pawn shop. Unless the 1873 was a very special gun (one of a thousand) I would just move on. I hope you are using a good safe today.It is unfortunate today that one cannot display old firearms without the risk of theft.
Walter
Walter,
Gun do circulate over time. I would imagine the thief sold them for 10 cents on the dollar and from there they work their way up the food chain from the dealer to the collector. Over time the collector will turn over guns either for upgrading or the collector getting old. If the guns were your average condition guns they will turn over more often. Now if they are high condition they will stay locked down longer.
I recall hearing about a guy checking gun shows and eventually found a gun that was stolen from him on a dealers table. He got his gun back and the dealer had to eat the cost. So it does happen.
Jim,
You didn’t mention the condition of the guns. Also I take it since your still looking for them they were not insured.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bert H. said
Blueliner said
Bert,
Does CFM record issued letters & serial searches by serial numbers and person requested by ?
Bill
I do not know if or how they track factory letters and serial number searches. You need to ask Jessica Bennett this question.
Bert
Why would it matter what CFM has searched and by whom? If I’m researching serial numbers in a sequence and one of those numbers has been reported stolen, what difference would me doing so make?
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick said
Bert H. said
Blueliner said
Bert,
Does CFM record issued letters & serial searches by serial numbers and person requested by ?
Bill
I do not know if or how they track factory letters and serial number searches. You need to ask Jessica Bennett this question.
Bert
Why would it matter what CFM has searched and by whom? If I’m researching serial numbers in a sequence and one of those numbers has been reported stolen, what difference would me doing so make?
Maverick
For the purpose you stated, the answer is ” none “. For the person trying to retrieve a stolen gun, it would be just a tracking piece of information for use, if so chosen. As per the responses above, the effort is a mine field of conflicts. A real conundrum.
Bill
1873man said
Walter,
Gun do circulate over time. I would imagine the thief sold them for 10 cents on the dollar and from there they work their way up the food chain from the dealer to the collector. Over time the collector will turn over guns either for upgrading or the collector getting old. If the guns were your average condition guns they will turn over more often. Now if they are high condition they will stay locked down longer.
I recall hearing about a guy checking gun shows and eventually found a gun that was stolen from him on a dealers table. He got his gun back and the dealer had to eat the cost. So it does happen.
Jim,
You didn’t mention the condition of the guns. Also I take it since your still looking for them they were not insured.
Bob
Bob…
I find it interesting that you know of a guy who found one of his stolen guns at a gun show and was able to recover it. I carry a laminated card in my wallet, listing the description and serial numbers of my stolen Winchesters, as well as the sheriff’s department case number. There is always the thought in my mind…”One of these days, I’m going to find one of my guns on some dealer’s table…”
Regarding the condition of the guns: The 73 and the 92 were pretty nice guns, but nothing to write home about. The 73 had about 60 percent blue, with the rest being a blue-brown patina. The wood was nice, but nothing special. The 92 had the usual silver-colored receiver due to the blue flaking off, but the barrel and magazine tube were about 85 or 90% blue. The one thing about the gun that caused me to buy it is that the bore was mint, and the gun shot very well. The 64 was my wife’s father’s gun, and was about 98 or 99%, except for some buggered screws. Wood was excellent. This is the gun that Bert has in his list of Model 64s. He said that he may very well have handled it, so I’m guessing that it may be in the Pacific Northwest somewhere.
Jim,
Did you talk to Jessi yet?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Jim,
Have you checked with “Two-bit” to see if your 92 is in his survey? I don’t recall Two-bit’s real name at the moment, but I’m sure he wouldn’t mind looking for you.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick…
If I remember correctly, I contacted 2Bit through the Gun Values Board about a year ago. I might send him a quick email just to make sure.
1873man said
Jim,
Did you talk to Jessi yet?
Bob
Yes. She will need a request from law enforcement in order to check the letter files at the museum.
Jim,
Will they keep checking as they do new searches and letter or is this just a one time deal?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
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