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On the book – Lou – the book is a great idea. I think it would sell well. “Winchester” is quite the collectable brand and M70’s, particularly so. As we know, they are very popular with an extensive following. Much more so, for example, than the Model 1895 Winchester. And that book sure sold quick!
Zebulon said, ‘Oh, and LOAN things to even a sympathetic museum on the condition they be on constant display, with a reversion to your foundation (if you have one) or to your heirs or devises.’
All kidding aside, I’ve given serious consideration to just such a scheme. It solves the problem of keeping the guns locked in a safe where no one, including me, gets to enjoy and appreciate them, but allows me or my heirs to retain ownership.
Paul
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
November 7, 2015
Offline
Louis Luttrell said
Zeb-The one fully illustrated chapter (with page layout) that I’ve finished HAS been read by several WACA members, including Seewin and TXGunNut, as well as Justin Hale (pre64win.com). I got plenty of good feedback!!! 😀 And I’m being serious… If you need a good laugh I can send you the Dropbox link…
(SNIP)
Best,
Lou
Lou-
The chapter I’ve previewed is why I’m so excited about your book project. Layout, photos and content are outstanding.
Mike
Lou,
Great collection of beautiful model 70’s. I would definatley buy your book.
Al
I certainly believe that magnificent specimens should be in collectors’ hands. I think that, it’s a great service to the community when collectors lend guns to museums to be displayed for all to see. But I think it’s a better service when they write articles or post about their guns on forums.
I think a museum should entertain the idea of disposition of some of it’s artifacts to true enthusiasts with the intent to acquire other pieces of interest.
It’s a dang shame when a collector has a rare and historic gun, and does nothing to share it with those others that would love to see it.
TXGunNut said
Louis Luttrell said
Zeb-
The one fully illustrated chapter (with page layout) that I’ve finished HAS been read by several WACA members, including Seewin and TXGunNut, as well as Justin Hale (pre64win.com). I got plenty of good feedback!!! 😀 And I’m being serious… If you need a good laugh I can send you the Dropbox link…
(SNIP)
Best,
Lou
Lou-
The chapter I’ve previewed is why I’m so excited about your book project. Layout, photos and content are outstanding.
Mike
Lou, I’m delighted to know you’re already “with book” and I hereby put my name in the hat for a copy when it’s hot off the press.
The late John Amber was fond of saying there was a difference between being brilliant and having a good library.
Maybe so but I prefer the late Louis Nizer’s observation: “I suppose I’ve been lucky in the law. Strangely, most of my luck seems to come to me at 3 A.M. in the law library.”
We’ve all benefitted from your expertise and look forward to seeing it recorded and illustrated in the extensive detail of which we know you’re capable. It will be a great resource.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
I’ve had 2 “museum” experiences 1; I have a Winchester hockey stick made for the Ottawa senators circa 1919 I had it at a gun show near Ottawa for sale for $1,000.00, about a week later a fella calls Me from the Ottawa Hockey players club thinking it would be a good idea for Me to “donate” this stick to their museum. My response was” I am an old guy on pension and You think I should donate this $1,000.00 stick to a bunch of fellas earning $5,000,000.00 – $10,000,000.00 a year, I don’t think that is going to happen”. I still have My hockey stick and I’ve never seen another one. 2; I bought a nice , untouch 1930 Buick that was one of 5 built, from a museum in Norwich Conn. The car had been “on loan” since the 1940’s Any way they ended up owning the car , even though the title was still in the family’s name, and the cheque was made to the museum. The car is now in a private collection,Jay Leno’s, where it should be . There is a whole lot more to that story but I won’t go in to detail. On the other hand I can’t say enough good about the Cody museum and firearms centre. 
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Louis Luttrell said
Zeb-The one fully illustrated chapter (with page layout) that I’ve finished HAS been read by several WACA members, including Seewin and TXGunNut, as well as Justin Hale (pre64win.com). I got plenty of good feedback!!! 😀 And I’m being serious… If you need a good laugh I can send you the Dropbox link…
I have a background in “technical writing” in the form of maybe a couple hundred scientific journal articles published over my career, and photography has been a hobby since high school. So the good news is that this isn’t “work”… But each chapter is a sizeable photography project in its own right (just ask JWA!!!). All those PARTS, all those SIGHTS, etc. Takes time… Tracking down source documents, and the SURVEY… Takes even more time!!! The good news is that I can illustrate the common stuff with pics of rifles I have here… The better news is that several WACA members have volunteered to contribute information and photos of rare stuff that I don’t/won’t ever have… Only a relatively few guns shown will involve auction house photos…
Assuming this does get finished, it will be a WACA “community effort”…
And by the way… I’m sure my plaque burden already involves more than my teeth!!!
Best,
Lou
Lou, I have a background in research journal article writing too (from a former life) and would volunteer to proofread it for structure and such (not content, others here have that covered I’m sure…). JP
Henry Mero said I bought a nice , untouch 1930 Buick that was one of 5 built, from a museum in Norwich Conn. The car had been “on loan” since the 1940’s Any way they ended up owning the car , even though the title was still in the family’s name, and the cheque was made to the museum. The car is now in a private collection,Jay Leno’s, where it should be .
Henry, Ever watch Jay’s “test drive” videos on You Tube? Scores of ’em, & once you get started, it’s hard to stop; maybe that Buick features in one of them.
First of all. Lou, I’m all in for a couple of copies of your book. Perhaps you could offer some form of special limited first edition run similar to what Dave Bichrest did with the his 54 book. As a contributor I’m pleased to have copy #13 with a penned sentiment from Dave.
What stands out to me in this thread are the wonderful digital mini museum posts from Lou, MRCVS and Henry. It’s unlikely I’ll have the opportunity to see any of these in person, let alone actually hold them.
I’ve often thought it would be nice to perhaps bridge the gap between collector and brick & mortar museum somehow with some form of virtual dedicated Member Museum here on the website. Perhaps somehow in the forum section. Lou alludes to something like this in response #26 with his online “collection monograph” idea. No doubt, the number of museum quality items of all sorts held by WACA members is amazing.
Here’s a favorite from my M70 single shot collection. Incidentally, seewin and I had the pleasure and honor of sharing our M70 SS collection’s when we represented WACA at the NRA National Convention in 2010. Below is a condensed description of the rifle.
Winchester 300m Free Rifle Model 70 Prototype #1
This is the first of 3 prototype single shot rifles built to fulfill a contract with the newly formed US Army Advanced Marksmanship Unit (USAMU) in 1957. 3 prototype, 6 final versions and 1 .22rf conversion were built. It appears only #1,2,3 and the .22rf still exist. Prototype #3 was retained by Winchester and is currently on display at the NRA museum in Missouri.
The stock is original as final formed at the marksmanship unit. The current barrel was installed by the unit. The double set trigger is adjustable is to less than an ounce.
Research indicates Lt. V.F. Wright, USAAMU used prototype #1 to place 1st in 300m prone and kneeling positions at the 1957 37th world Championships in Moscow. His Kneeling score of 385 tied the world’s record set in 1955.
There is a blueprint PDF in the list images at the bottom of the post
Ned
Nevada Paul said
Zebulon said, ‘Oh, and LOAN things to even a sympathetic museum on the condition they be on constant display, with a reversion to your foundation (if you have one) or to your heirs or devises.’All kidding aside, I’ve given serious consideration to just such a scheme. It solves the problem of keeping the guns locked in a safe where no one, including me, gets to enjoy and appreciate them, but allows me or my heirs to retain ownership.
Paul
Unless I was a lawyer myself, I would have a lawyer draw up the agreement with the museum.
steve004 said
Nevada Paul said
Zebulon said, ‘Oh, and LOAN things to even a sympathetic museum on the condition they be on constant display, with a reversion to your foundation (if you have one) or to your heirs or devises.’
All kidding aside, I’ve given serious consideration to just such a scheme. It solves the problem of keeping the guns locked in a safe where no one, including me, gets to enjoy and appreciate them, but allows me or my heirs to retain ownership.
Paul
Unless I was a lawyer myself, I would have a lawyer draw up the agreement with the museum.
Steve has said the true word. Don’t draw the doc yourself or blindly accept the institution’s “standard form.” For the matter of that, don’t draw it yourself even if you’re a lawyer with significant transactional experience. Engage a colleague to draw it. [Don’t ask me how I learned this…..]
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
1ned1 said
What stands out to me in this thread are the wonderful digital mini museum posts from Lou, MRCVS and Henry. It’s unlikely I’ll have the opportunity to see any of these in person, let alone actually hold them.
I’ve often thought it would be nice to perhaps bridge the gap between collector and brick & mortar museum somehow with some form of virtual dedicated Member Museum here on the website. Perhaps somehow in the forum section. Lou alludes to something like this in response #26 with his online “collection monograph” idea. No doubt, the number of museum quality items of all sorts held by WACA members is amazing.
Here’s a favorite from my M70 single shot collection. Incidentally, seewin and I had the pleasure and honor of sharing our M70 SS collection’s when we represented WACA at the NRA National Convention in 2010. Below is a condensed description of the rifle.
Winchester 300m Free Rifle Model 70 Prototype #1
This is the first of 3 prototype single shot rifles built to fulfill a contract with the newly formed US Army Advanced Marksmanship Unit (USAMU) in 1957. 3 prototype, 6 final versions and 1 .22rf conversion were built. It appears only #1,2,3 and the .22rf still exist. Prototype #3 was retained by Winchester and is currently on display at the NRA museum in Missouri.
The stock is original as final formed at the marksmanship unit. The current barrel was installed by the unit. The double set trigger is adjustable is to less than an ounce.
Research indicates Lt. V.F. Wright, USAAMU used prototype #1 to place 1st in 300m prone and kneeling positions at the 1957 37th world Championships in Moscow. His Kneeling score of 385 tied the world’s record set in 1955.
There is a blueprint PDF in the list images at the bottom of the post
Ned
Thank you for the kind words. And, my knowledge base and the Winchesters I have pale in comparison to many on this forum, Bert, Burt, and Rick Hill especially come to mind.
I learn so much on this forum, it teaches ne how little I really know.
I post firearms photographs and commentary, including some learning exercises on the Colt and Smith & Wesson forums. I am actually more knowledgeable about some earlier examples of these than Winchesters. Also, I find I’m better able to photograph and discuss a revolver than a longarm as they photograph better.
I look forward to Lou’s book on the Model 70, as I’m sure it will be impressive!
I will end this thread by posting a few photographs of a Smith & Wesson First Model American revolver with the “oil hole” as a sampling of what some of my other interests are. It’s nearly the finest First Model American in existence and possibly the finest one containing an “oil hole”.
I also decided to post an excellent example of a Colt Artillery Model revolver in my collection. Just how I like them with regards to condition and honest wear. John Kopec gave it Gold Seal of Approval status in one of his letters.
I post these just to give a sampling of what my other interests are and because others may find these firearms interesting as well.
November 5, 2014
Offline
Hi Ned-
I think you know that I really like the M70 “Olympics” and AAMC rifles that you and Seewin have… 😀 And your photography skills are excellent!!! 😀
A WACA “virtual Winchester museum” is something I’d like to see!!! Kind of like Rob Kassab’s “Rare Winchesters” site where organized/curated “displays” of Winchesters (all Models) could viewed as learning exhibits. Even if a pictured gun changed hands (disappeared into yet another vault), its presence in the “virtual reference collection” would be preserved.
We certainly have the collectors/collections represented in WACA to undertake such a project, and I suspect that quite a few members would be willing to show off their favorites (since the identity of the owner/location of the collection could be kept anonymous if desired). I’m not as sure that the necessary photography skills are as well represented within the membership as the actual “exhibits” are. I don’t think that there are a lot of members who could match you, Brad, Rob, Michael and Steve behind the camera.
We’d also have to have “curators” for each “gallery” (Model) who would select examples to include and provide just enough “captioning” that the ignorant enthusiast (for example ME looking at M1873s) would recognize the key differences. Not an on-line textbook, but enough to make newbies with a developing interest go out and find the books and/or WACA Collector articles that go into depth.
Lou
P.S. I’m (still) eagerly awaiting your monograph on those developmental M70 Target rifles!!! 
I need a reference work that I can cite!!!
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
I really like Louis’ idea of a ‘virtual Winchester museum’ tied to this site. I can see endless possibilities for establishing valuable resources for all of us, plus newcomers. It could also serve as a ‘look and learn’ museum for all passersby, as well as regular member-users.
I’d be happy and proud to photograph and post suitable photos of my Winchesters, but I don’t think any qualify as ‘museum quality’.
I’ve often thought that I’d love to see a page where Bert and Michael’s very useful information on barrel and tang markings could be centralized with a set of detailed photos for quick reference, for example.
However, having said all this, I recognize that such an undertaking would require a tremendous amount of time and work, and is most certainly beyond the ‘volunteer’ status of all the folks who make this forum run smoothly.
Paul
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
Nevada Paul said
I really like Louis’ idea of a ‘virtual Winchester museum’ tied to this site. I can see endless possibilities for establishing valuable resources for all of us, plus newcomers. It could also serve as a ‘look and learn’ museum for all passersby, as well as regular member-users.I’d be happy and proud to photograph and post suitable photos of my Winchesters, but I don’t think any qualify as ‘museum quality’.
I’ve often thought that I’d love to see a page where Bert and Michael’s very useful information on barrel and tang markings could be centralized with a set of detailed photos for quick reference, for example.
However, having said all this, I recognize that such an undertaking would require a tremendous amount of time and work, and is most certainly beyond the ‘volunteer’ status of all the folks who make this forum run smoothly.
Paul
Some auction sites already produce that which you seek. Questions and comments can be posted as a thread to this forum, for a critique, plus comments and questions. With one caveat. Auction houses exist to sell products. Sometimes what they write is hyperbole, lies, or fiction. Which is why posting here for commentary can sort fact from fiction.
Not that I don’t think a virtual site isn’t a good idea. But it would be a lot of effort.
mrcvs said
1ned1 said
What stands out to me in this thread are the wonderful digital mini museum posts from Lou, MRCVS and Henry. It’s unlikely I’ll have the opportunity to see any of these in person, let alone actually hold them.
I’ve often thought it would be nice to perhaps bridge the gap between collector and brick & mortar museum somehow with some form of virtual dedicated Member Museum here on the website. Perhaps somehow in the forum section. Lou alludes to something like this in response #26 with his online “collection monograph” idea. No doubt, the number of museum quality items of all sorts held by WACA members is amazing.
Here’s a favorite from my M70 single shot collection. Incidentally, seewin and I had the pleasure and honor of sharing our M70 SS collection’s when we represented WACA at the NRA National Convention in 2010. Below is a condensed description of the rifle.
Winchester 300m Free Rifle Model 70 Prototype #1
This is the first of 3 prototype single shot rifles built to fulfill a contract with the newly formed US Army Advanced Marksmanship Unit (USAMU) in 1957. 3 prototype, 6 final versions and 1 .22rf conversion were built. It appears only #1,2,3 and the .22rf still exist. Prototype #3 was retained by Winchester and is currently on display at the NRA museum in Missouri.
The stock is original as final formed at the marksmanship unit. The current barrel was installed by the unit. The double set trigger is adjustable is to less than an ounce.
Research indicates Lt. V.F. Wright, USAAMU used prototype #1 to place 1st in 300m prone and kneeling positions at the 1957 37th world Championships in Moscow. His Kneeling score of 385 tied the world’s record set in 1955.
There is a blueprint PDF in the list images at the bottom of the post
Ned
Thank you for the kind words. And, my knowledge base and the Winchesters I have pale in comparison to many on this forum, Bert, Burt, and Rick Hill especially come to mind.
I learn so much on this forum, it teaches ne how little I really know.
I post firearms photographs and commentary, including some learning exercises on the Colt and Smith & Wesson forums. I am actually more knowledgeable about some earlier examples of these than Winchesters. Also, I find I’m better able to photograph and discuss a revolver than a longarm as they photograph better.
I look forward to Lou’s book on the Model 70, as I’m sure it will be impressive!
I will end this thread by posting a few photographs of a Smith & Wesson First Model American revolver with the “oil hole” as a sampling of what some of my other interests are. It’s nearly the finest First Model American in existence and possibly the finest one containing an “oil hole”.
I also decided to post an excellent example of a Colt Artillery Model revolver in my collection. Just how I like them with regards to condition and honest wear. John Kopec gave it Gold Seal of Approval status in one of his letters.
I post these just to give a sampling of what my other interests are and because others may find these firearms interesting as well.
Both of your revolvers are beautiful. My knowledge is somewhat limited. I do have copy of Kopec’s SAA book. Thanks for posting the photos.
Louis Luttrell said
Hi Ned-I think you know that I really like the M70 “Olympics” and AAMC rifles that you and Seewin have… 😀 And your photography skills are excellent!!! 😀
A WACA “virtual Winchester museum” is something I’d like to see!!! Kind of like Rob Kassab’s “Rare Winchesters” site where organized/curated “displays” of Winchesters (all Models) could viewed as learning exhibits. Even if a pictured gun changed hands (disappeared into yet another vault), its presence in the “virtual reference collection” would be preserved.
We certainly have the collectors/collections represented in WACA to undertake such a project, and I suspect that quite a few members would be willing to show off their favorites (since the identity of the owner/location of the collection could be kept anonymous if desired). I’m not as sure that the necessary photography skills are as well represented within the membership as the actual “exhibits” are. I don’t think that there are a lot of members who could match you, Brad, Rob, Michael and Steve behind the camera.
We’d also have to have “curators” for each “gallery” (Model) who would select examples to include and provide just enough “captioning” that the ignorant enthusiast (for example ME looking at M1873s) would recognize the key differences. Not an on-line textbook, but enough to make newbies with a developing interest go out and find the books and/or WACA Collector articles that go into depth.
Lou
P.S. I’m (still) eagerly awaiting your monograph on those developmental M70 Target rifles!!!
Thanks Lou. Yes the Museum might prove to be challenging. But boy would there be some great stuff in it!
I’m still working on the SS project. I’ll get it done.
Ned
Some auction sites already produce that which you seek. mrcvs said
As I’m sure you know, the Forgotten Weapons You-Tube Channel frequently displays & discusses guns destined for Rock Island auctions, maybe others, often in great detail; these presentations are not sales pitches, nothing of the kind.
Louis Luttrell said
Hi Ned-I think you know that I really like the M70 “Olympics” and AAMC rifles that you and Seewin have… 😀 And your photography skills are excellent!!! 😀
Ned’s photography is superb by any measure and he knows something we should all chalk on our shaving mirrors: photographing metallic and wood objects is technically less challenging when done outside — the very best situation being late morning on a cloudy day. A
nd, of course, if you’re illustrating a hunting rifle, some foliage can really work wonders.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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