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I am curious if any one here can tell Me if the consecutive ser#d pair of 15″ bbl.1873 rifles #’s (103793 & 103794) are legit or has one been Mfg,d to match the other. One letters , the other one doesn’t. G.I. #103131815. What’s Your thoughts.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Why isn’t a formal Cody letter available for both? According to the data sheet, the one without the formal letter, would letter?
They have later barrel address’s than what they should have based on the serial numbers. A call to Cody is in order before even considering them.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
They have later barrel address’s than what they should have based on the serial numbers. A call to Cody is in order before even considering them.Bob
Bob –
Your advice is certainly very prudent. So, what would your thoughts be for #103794, if Jessica does indeed confirm, that she authored that museum letter?
From looking at the serial numbers, it looks like they were refinished. On higher condition guns you usually see the serial number with raised edges.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 7, 2015
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103793 is certainly suspect but should be easy enough to verify. Jesi said she is aware of fake letters. Bob’s point about the barrel issues is troubling. Both appear to be honest guns. Only odd thing is they are about as close to identical as any pair I’ve seen, pretty remarkable considering the age.
Mike
These are antiques but wouldn’t they still need the ATF Clearance letter?
Is the magazine retaining band in the correct location?
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I was looking at these last week, and had my doubts.
Sure does raise a lot of questions, as far as all the facts that are brought up here.
Anthony
Maverick said
These are antiques but wouldn’t they still need the ATF Clearance letter?Is the magazine retaining band in the correct location?
No, they do not require an ATF clearance letter. The fact that they are legally “antique” automatically clears them.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Henry Mero said
I am curious if any one here can tell Me if the consecutive ser#d pair of 15″ bbl.1873 rifles #’s (103793 & 103794) are legit or has one been Mfg,d to match the other. One letters , the other one doesn’t. G.I. #103131815. What’s Your thoughts.
Based on the information posted by the seller, it appears to me that both rifles will letter as 15-inch round barreled “Short” rifle. The were both received in the warehouse on the same date, and the same configuration. The blank records entry for the shipped (sold) date and order number for one of them is not unusual for a consecutive serial numbered pair. If I were interested in this pair, I would sit down with Jessica at the Cody show and ask her to show me the ledger entries for the pair.
If either gun is a Fake, I would really like to know who made them!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks for all the responses, I do like these, and most little Winchesters but I just don’t like the discrepancy’s for the price of them. Again an “in hand” inspection would probably go a long way.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
I checked with Cody and they do letter the way they put in the description but the barrel address bugged me. In the back of my mind I thought they didn’t use the later barrel address on round barrels so I started looking at pictures of round barrel 73’s and confirmed that they didn’t use the later U.S.A. address on a round barrel. Here is a pictures of round barrel address serial 256959 & 458817 with the C.T. address.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Not that I’m even close to interested, So general consensus is they are fake?
That’s enough confirmation for me from, Bob, (1873man).
So to me, the in hand inspection wouldn’t even be needed! IMO!
Anthony
I just noticed something else that is setting off the red flag… the barrel marking is “WINCHESTER‘S“, and I have never seen that on any authentic Winchester barrel. In all cases that I am aware, it should simply be just “WINCHESTER”.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
I also noticed the barrel caliber stamp is not correct. It should have a dash between 32 and Cal
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
Bert,I also noticed the barrel caliber stamp is not correct. It should have a dash between 32 and Cal
Bob
Did the caliber marking ever change to “32 CAL.“? The reason I ask, is because the early Single Shot rifles manufactured in 1885 & 1886 were marked without a dash just like the barrels on that pair of 1873 Short rifles.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
I just noticed something else that is setting off the red flag… the barrel marking is “WINCHESTER‘S“, and I have never seen that on any authentic Winchester barrel. In all cases that I am aware, it should simply be just “WINCHESTER”.Bert
You may need stronger glasses Bert, picture of the address on my 73 short rifle sn 518185
oldcrankyyankee said
Not that I’m even close to interested, So general consensus is they are fake?
Tom –
I’m not ready to join that consensus yet. Both rifles letter as they sit, so it begs the question why would the barrels have been changed? I doubt the originals would have cut down! Maybe shot out? 
As evidenced by the factory ledger, the rifles were made up to be special. And what was special about them is the barrels. Hence, these rifles weren’t just pulled off the standard production line. They received special attention – possibly assigned to an employee who didn’t work on the standard production line and perhaps some different stampings were used? Yet, I can’t get my head around the use of a later barrel stamping. I have feelings in both directions.
With some faked Winchesters, we see examples where the project starts with a serial number and the rifle is built to the specifications outlined in the factory ledger. Sometimes Winchester parts are used and sometimes manufactured parts are used. If that’s the case, as Bert suggested, I too, would like to meet the person who faked these rifles and learn just how how they did it.
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