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Eastern Iowa
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June 2, 2021 - 12:54 pm
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Remember when you could just call your favorite dealer and order any dies and brass you needed?  AND they were in stock?  I’m tired of getting smoked on gunbroken and ebay…..   IF I can find what I need the price always starts high and goes higher.   The guns are easier to find than the reloading gear.

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June 2, 2021 - 1:18 pm
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I think the only way to break this chain of panic buying is just to step aside from it for as long as it takes for greedy sellers (esp. the ammo industry) to start wondering where all the suckers have gone.  In other words, lay down your guns & go fishing, play golf, take up archery, etc.  What would it take to make this happen?  Self-control, self-restraint, sadly the most UN-American of virtues.

What’s the incentive for sellers to lower prices when fools line up to pay whatever is asked?

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June 2, 2021 - 1:55 pm
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Well this fool isn’t paying those magnum prices. 

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June 2, 2021 - 3:28 pm
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Brooksy said
Well this fool isn’t paying those magnum prices.   

Neither am I, even if it means I have to take up archery.  (I’ve always wanted a cross-bow anyway, but the best ones are damn expensive!)

When the snow melted from my range at the end of March, I had a case & a half of Long Rifle, what I shoot the most of, a box a day everyday of good weather, sometimes two (depending on which of my three M.52s I’m shooting), but I’ve cut that to 25 rds–hardly worth the time of driving out there.  The ammo I had been paying 4 cents/rd for is now 24 cents/rd.; I’ll NEVER pay that, or even half that, & it’s all too clear this rip-off situation isn’t going to improve before next yr, if then!  So I’ll get by with what I’ve got, or quit shooting altogether. 

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June 3, 2021 - 2:26 am
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 What are you looking for, Brooksy? 

 

Mike

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June 3, 2021 - 12:42 pm
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TXGunNut said
 What are you looking for, Brooksy? 

 

Mike  

Molds and dies for 38 72 and 40 72. I found a set of  RCBS dies on ebay for  40 72 a couple weeks ago that went for a couple hundred bucks. I can’t bring myself to pay that. There is a mold on ebay right now for 38 72 for $180 + tax + shipping…..That’s a big pill to swallow. Maybe I’m not being realistic.

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June 3, 2021 - 12:56 pm
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Brooksy said

Molds and dies for 38 72 and 40 72. I found a set of  RCBS dies on ebay for  40 72 a couple weeks ago that went for a couple hundred bucks. I can’t bring myself to pay that. There is a mold on ebay right now for 38 72 for $180 + tax + shipping…..That’s a big pill to swallow. Maybe I’m not being realistic.  

Sorry, probably can’t help with that. I have a Winchester 40-72 mould but I have my doubts about how serviceable it may be. I try to avoid adding new cartridges to my loading menu but it’s always an adventure. I’ll be firing up my casting furnace soon, will let you know if this mould works out. 

 

Mike

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June 3, 2021 - 2:24 pm
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Brooksy and Mike,  I have yet to reload for either the .38-72 or .40-72 as I already load for soooo many of the old calibers, but from what I have observed from the Cartridges of the World loading data, use a mould for the .38-55.  Essentially the same as the original bullet for the .38-72.  Obviously the loading dies are entirely a different story.  Cast bullets would be but very little different, but in the ogive profile.  Tim.  

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June 3, 2021 - 4:33 pm
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This is starting to sound like fun, Tim. Can’t wait to sit down with my loading manuals to check dimensions.

 

Mike

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June 3, 2021 - 8:01 pm
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tim tomlinson said
Brooksy and Mike,  I have yet to reload for either the .38-72 or .40-72 as I already load for soooo many of the old calibers, but from what I have observed from the Cartridges of the World loading data, use a mould for the .38-55.  Essentially the same as the original bullet for the .38-72.  Obviously the loading dies are entirely a different story.  Cast bullets would be but very little different, but in the ogive profile.  Tim.    

Yep. I  used to load for 38-55 but sold all the dies and molds with the gun. Wish I wouldn’t have done that now.Cry  I’m baffled by the lack of new dies etc. on the market. I mean who’s buying all of this  odd ball reloading stuff? Better yet, why is it taking so blasted long for the industry to catch up?

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June 3, 2021 - 9:18 pm
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Brooksy said
  I’m baffled by the lack of new dies etc. on the market. I mean who’s buying all of this  odd ball reloading stuff? Better yet, why is it taking so blasted long for the industry to catch up?  

Dies for obsolete cartridges have generally been special order, extra cost, options with most makers.  I remember waiting months for the .40-90 dies I bought from CH many yrs ago. 

On top of that, speculators may be buying dies they don’t need for resale.

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June 3, 2021 - 9:26 pm
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clarence said

Dies for obsolete cartridges have generally been special order, extra cost, options with most makers.  I remember waiting months for the .40-90 dies I bought from CH many yrs ago. 

On top of that, speculators may be buying dies they don’t need for resale.  

I think the industry is channeling all their efforts into the modern calibers – where the demand is largest.  .223, .308 and the like are going to receive top priority.  Devoting any of their resources to fill a very small number for obsolete dies and molds is not going to receive any energy.  

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June 4, 2021 - 1:13 am
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Looks to me like the 40-72 could be loaded by carefully using 40-65 or 40-82 dies. Bullet diameters are the same also. No idea if that helps, Brooksy. The bottleneck case of the 38-72 presents more of a challenge. Other than the 38-55 bullets I don’t know where to start if cases need resizing. Can’t think of any short seating dies that would clear the shoulder. Have you checked Buffalo Arms?

 

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June 4, 2021 - 2:03 am
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TXGunNut said
Looks to me like the 40-72 could be loaded by carefully using 40-65 or 40-82 dies.

Like I’ve reloaded .25-20 SS using .25-20 WCF dies.  Not only are FL sizing dies unneeded, they’re to be avoided–all you need is enough neck tension to hold the bullet, & if you could find a mold that throws oversize bullets, you wouldn’t even need that. With a SS, you could breech-seat, & do away with dies entirely.  I like the the old Ideal tools because they neck-sized only.  (Though a FL die could be bought separately.)

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June 4, 2021 - 2:42 am
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Back to the topic of loading for the .38-72, here’s a 2011 thread from another forum regarding someone’s experience with this task.  Fun to see Michael Petrov comment:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=232785

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June 4, 2021 - 2:15 pm
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Steve,  Fun reading the thread you forwarded.  How many of the old calibers have the same issue?  Bullets to fill the grooves are too big to chamber in even thin brass?  This is often true with the .38-55 as well, etc.  But like in the thread you may indeed get adequate accuracy with bullets that are a tad under groove diameter.  Maybe that is the attraction for those of us that try our hands at reloading for them?  What say you, Mike?  Tim.

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June 4, 2021 - 2:49 pm
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tim tomlinson said
Steve,  Fun reading the thread you forwarded.  How many of the old calibers have the same issue?  Bullets to fill the grooves are too big to chamber in even thin brass?  This is often true with the .38-55 as well, etc.  But like in the thread you may indeed get adequate accuracy with bullets that are a tad under groove diameter.  Maybe that is the attraction for those of us that try our hands at reloading for them?  What say you, Mike?  Tim.  

The rule & not the exception with most BP carts., on the theory that BP expanded base of bullet to fill grooves.  Also, after a few shots, bore would be caked with BP fouling, so maybe that was another reason for the oversize grooves.

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June 4, 2021 - 6:16 pm
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Great thread, Steve. The “bumping up” of a jacketed bullet to fill the bore is anything but a sure thing, IMHO. Since I seldom use jacketed bullets my knowledge of that function is mostly anecdotal. I’ve observed that jacketed bullets for the 375 Winchester generally work quite well in the significantly larger bores of the early 38-55’s but cast bullets from a mould that work well in the .375 (Lyman’s 375449) don’t work well in the older 38-55’s when using my standard casting alloy of repurposed wheel weights. SKB makes a good point in the referenced thread about a jacketed bullet flexible enough to “bump up” not holding together well enough to function as a hunting bullet and I suspect the obverse is true. A jacketed bullet designed to stay intact at high velocities on large game is not likely to be flexible enough to “bump up” when necessary. I do know that my standard alloy apparently doesn’t “bump up” significantly in most cases. BP cartridges were designed for much softer alloys (16-1 or 20-1) and those alloys tend to bump up with BP and some smokeless loads. I have a limited amount of 20-1 alloy so tend to cast larger bullets to fill the grooves without having to depend on the bullets being bumped up to fill the bore.

 

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June 4, 2021 - 7:57 pm
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TXGunNut said
 I have a limited amount of 20-1 alloy so tend to cast larger bullets to fill the grooves without having to depend on the bullets being bumped up to fill the bore.

 

Mike  

Of course that guarantees the best fit, but doesn’t work, as Tim said, when they’re too large too seat in the case.  You can ream out the case mouth to gain a bit of clearance, but that may lead to splitting at the mouth.

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clarence said

Of course that guarantees the best fit, but doesn’t work, as Tim said, when they’re too large too seat in the case.  You can ream out the case mouth to gain a bit of clearance, but that may lead to splitting at the mouth.  

Yes, sir. I’m not a fan of case neck reaming in this situation. Last time I was in this situation I was using Winchester cases and I didn’t feel reaming was a good option. Quite honestly for the cartridges (and cases) I load I’ve never felt neck reaming was a good option. In the above case our options include trying to get the powder charge to bump the bullet up to fill the bore, IMHO. Another solution is to measure a fired case or do a chamber cast and see if a reamer with more generous neck dimensions is available. Some of the cartridges we enjoy pre-date SAAMI, components we use may be more compatible with later versions of chambers. Not saying I’d open up the chamber of a pristine specimen but if a rifle with a tight throat demonstrated more potential as a shooter than as a collector I’d give it some thought. A split case is a serious matter for the stuff we load, tossing a case into the “scrap brass” bucket is always a sad moment for me. 

Can’t wait to pick your brain on the 38-55 at Cody, Tim. Would love to sit down with you, too, Clarence. I’ll need to bring my load notes book to get the most out visiting with either of you. TR has re-kindled my 38-55 project but I can’t seem to find the Accurate 38-255L bullets my notes mention. If the weather forecast is right I’ll have an opportunity to cast a few to continue that project.

Sorry about the hi-jack, Brooksy. Any progress in the die hunt?

 

Mike

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