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Just recently, being the first of my involvement on this forum after hearing my name was mentioned, and being curious of what was all being said I must say Im quite disappointed to find so much negativity involved in posts here. It was my impression that this was a forum to be used as a place for Firearms Collectors, Dealers and Enthusiast to gather information and share stories. Not a forum to publicly criticize and accuse anyone of fault. It brings to mind, I quote from one of the most colorful gun dealers Ive had the pleasure of doing business with. Mr. Albert Buckingham. he said “MMMMMMerz an opinion is just like an asshole everyones got one” I can only add this “BBBBBBert an opinion is just like an asshole everybody’s got one”.
Lighten up everyone, Lets have some fun with this. Collecting is supposed to be a fun hobby not something to sit around bickering and bitching about like a bunch of old woman. Nobody knows everything about everything but all of us knows something about something. On e thing Im sure we can all agree that we won’t always agree. This Forum can help us all learn valuable information to be shared with future Gun Collector and Enthusiests. My Experience dates to the early 60’s. I always looked forward to and enjoyed visiting with the older guys from the 40s and 50’s. The information and stories they told me were priceless. They had been there, done that. This helped me vision how it really was. Lets continue the legacy of Collecting Winchester Firearms in a positive manor. If we wanna argue we can look up ouir ex-wives. Leroy Merz WACA Member #357 
Hi LeRoy,
I tend to agree with you. During the last transaction with Albert, I asked if he or George Madis had the most Winchesters in the ’60’s. He chuckled and would not take the bait.
Walter
Well LeRoy,
It’s 8:00am my Time Zone 11 April 2015,,
I have Thought About replying to your Post for 4 hrs Now,,
There are 58 Views to your Post within this time frame of your Post of this Subject, with Only One (1) Reply ?
I will start out by Stating (in my own Opinion) that I agree with you 100%
I think, Members of this Forum, Post Relevant Questions Pertaining to a Winchester they have Questions about.
I am not going to Include Guest Posts, because they should be asking their Questions, to the so called Experts at that Auction Site. Yes they should be able to Read the Posts in Threads of their Interest, but Not to Ask Questions about Winchesters to Gain Personal Knowledge or Monetary Gain. I Pay My Dues to WACA to be a Part of this Community to ask Relevant Questions that I have from another Members Opinion.
Excuse Me, but I need to go have another Cigarette and some Coffee, to Collect my Thoughts.. Be Right Back.
Am I an Expert about Winchesters,, No I am Not,,
I do Have my Opinion about Winchesters, through Looking at Thousands of them (as so many claim, here on this Forum) because I have been doing it since 1970 when I obtained my Drivers License and was able to attend Gun Shows and View them.
I Have Contributed Examples of Winchesters from my Collection, to WACA Members that are Conducting Surveys of Different Models. In an Attempt to Pass on Pertinent Information about those Models (specifically those that CAN NOT be Lettered). But Do Not Condemn my Winchester Example (or any other’s), just because I (they) can’t remove the Magazine Tube or will not Tear the Gun apart to inspect the Barrel Date. Plus they are only Viewing a Picture of that Gun and not holding it and Visually Inspecting it. Unless You (the proclaimed expert) was Employed by Winchester at the time frame that Winchester was Manufactured and can tell me Specifically that it wasn’t Manufactured by Winchester to form your Opinion, It is Still Only an Opinion. I will Defend My Opinion on my own Gained Knowledge.
As for Letter-able Winchesters,,
I do Own a Few of them, do I have a Letter for each one? ( No I Do Not). Here is Just one Example of why Not. I Purchased this Gun before I belonged to WACA or Cody Firearms Museum. Winchester Model 1895, 38-72 Caliber, Sporting Rifle, Octagon Barrel (MFG 1900). I Purchased this gun from a small country gun shop, under the assumption (at the time) it was a nice old Model 1895 Winchester in a Black Powder Caliber.Visually everything about the gun is correct (lettering,barrel markings), I get it home measure the Barrel and it measures 25″ . WoW , I go get the Bible (THE WINCHESTER BOOK) quickly go to the Model 1895 section, find the Standard Barrel Length for a 38-72 Caliber, Holly Geeeezus it’s suppose to be 26″. This can’t be, I MADE a MISTAKE (i measure it again), with all my Gained Knowledge about Winchesters? George and The Bible can’t be wrong? (by the way George does state in the Bible that 1 model 1895 was made with a 25″ barrel, but it suppose to be a carbine)
Time Lapse into the Future, I Join WACA, then Cody, Obtain a Letter,,
The Letter states nothing about the barrel length, but I say to myself, this can’t be true. I remove the Forend, Barrel Markings seem to be Correct, I think about Correct Front Sight Placement (from the Muzzle), I Measure that, it’s Correct. Then it dawns on me to Remove the Front Sight from it’s Dovetail to look for Machining Marks from Cutting the Dovetail, they are Present. I think, is the Barrel a Cut Down? Well, I PM a WACA Member that has a Model 1895 in 38-72 Caliber with a Octagon Barrel and ask for the OD Measurement of his Barrel at the Muzzle, he politely responds to my request with a measurement of .658, I quickly get out my dial calipers and measure my barrel, Holly Geeezus, my calipers are showing the same .658 measurement.
So, What do I Have? In My Mind, a Winchester Model 1895, 38-72 Caliber, Sporting Rifle, 25″ Octagon Barrel.It wasn’t a Special Order, or it would have stated the Barrel Length on the Letter? Was it a Longer than Standard Barrel Winchester had in Stock and Cut the Breech End Down to be a Standard 26″ Barrel? But the Employee forgot to wear their glasses that day and cut it 1″ shorter to be a 25″ Barrel? or Did the Employee entering the Guns into the Ledger that day, miss something as to a Special Ordered Gun? As that Gun came off the Assembly Line, nobody bothered to measure the Barrel Length? It wasn’t the Normal Employee Entering Notes into the Ledger that Day? I have No Clue, I wasn’t there that day, were you?
So, after another smoke and coffee break to collect my thoughts. (maybe my thoughts are clouded from cigarette smoke)?
Maybe there should be a section within this Forum, for the Purist Winchester Collectors, that only Collect Winchesters that they can Obtain a Factory Letter for?
Well, I could go on, but I won’t. Wait a Minute, I changed my Mind. Just one more thing I’d like to add. I Really Don’t think it’s right for a Member of the WACA, to buy a Winchester off a Auction Site, hold onto it for a few months, then Post on the WACA Site, that they have a Winchester to Offer for Sale to the Members. At a Profit of $1000.00 Over What They Paid for It, just a few months prior to Listing Here on WACA.
Well, I’m Done Now, Just Have to Add, Liability Disclaimer:
#1- I Wrote this for Your Enjoyment. (it only took me 3hrs & 50mins) I had nothing better to do today.
#2- I Did Not Intend to Offend Anybody that Contributes to the WACA Forum.
#3- I Do Take Constructive Criticize-um, very well.
#4- Added another Perspective to Collecting Winchesters?
#5- Hope I Intrigued Other WACA Members to Reply to the Original Post.
#6- In Reference to the Original Post, I think this is the Reason Why, People that have Written Books about Winchesters, only pop in here once in a while, to state a fact, or offer their opinion.
#7- If You Have Read What I Have Posted, and You Don’t Like it? Just Move on to any other Post you Like, and Disregard What I Have Written.
#8- Again, These are My Own Thoughts about the Original Post in This Thread.
Enjoy Your Day, Because I Did,
hokie, because that’s what I have been called all my Life. (if you want to know my Birth Given Name, PM me).
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
Mark:
1. I checked your profile and will attempt to get your status changed to “member” rather than “guest” on your Forum posts.
2. Loved your dissertation on your Model 1895 – I’d bet good money that it is an original 25″ barrel that got missed when it went into the warehouse (it wouldn’t be the first time that it happened).
3. Stuff like this is what collecting is all about. The Forum should be about all about sharing these types of observations and not polling peoples’ opinions.
4. You ought to quit smoking. It will stunt your growth…………
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
Hey Rick,
My Profile, use to show me as a Member, don’t know what happened to it, I didn’t realize it until now, that you made mention of it.
Yessssssssssss I do like humor, I might be shrinking in height, but I think that is from age.
Thanks,hokie
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
January 26, 2011
Offline
LeRoy Merz said
Lighten up everyone, Lets have some fun with this. Collecting is supposed to be a fun hobby not something to sit around bickering and bitching about like a bunch of old woman. Nobody knows everything about everything but all of us knows something about something. On e thing Im sure we can all agree that we won’t always agree. This Forum can help us all learn valuable information to be shared with future Gun Collector and Enthusiests. My Experience dates to the early 60’s. I always looked forward to and enjoyed visiting with the older guys from the 40s and 50’s. The information and stories they told me were priceless. They had been there, done that. This helped me vision how it really was. Lets continue the legacy of Collecting Winchester Firearms in a positive manor. If we wanna argue we can look up ouir ex-wives. Leroy Merz WACA Member #357
Amen Leroy………thanks for being straightforward and honest with your comments.
Sometimes we all need to have a filter and choose our battles wisely when posting.
Hokie, thanks for your thoughts (and humor) as well……great post.
~Gary~
LeRoy Merz said
Just recently, being the first of my involvement on this forum after hearing my name was mentioned, and being curious of what was all being said I must say Im quite disappointed to find so much negativity involved in posts here. It was my impression that this was a forum to be used as a place for Firearms Collectors, Dealers and Enthusiast to gather information and share stories. Not a forum to publicly criticize and accuse anyone of fault. It brings to mind, I quote from one of the most colorful gun dealers Ive had the pleasure of doing business with. Mr. Albert Buckingham. he said “MMMMMMerz an opinion is just like an asshole everyones got one” I can only add this “BBBBBBert an opinion is just like an asshole everybody’s got one”.
Lighten up everyone, Lets have some fun with this. Collecting is supposed to be a fun hobby not something to sit around bickering and bitching about like a bunch of old woman. Nobody knows everything about everything but all of us knows something about something. On e thing Im sure we can all agree that we won’t always agree. This Forum can help us all learn valuable information to be shared with future Gun Collector and Enthusiests. My Experience dates to the early 60’s. I always looked forward to and enjoyed visiting with the older guys from the 40s and 50’s. The information and stories they told me were priceless. They had been there, done that. This helped me vision how it really was. Lets continue the legacy of Collecting Winchester Firearms in a positive manor. If we wanna argue we can look up ouir ex-wives. Leroy Merz WACA Member #357
Hi Leroy
This is Brad. I’ve been to your place before to look at 1894s and also enjoyed talking to you for awhile over the phone this winter about my 1899 25-35 and about WACA. I took your advice and got the gun lettered and the news in the letter was good. I’m glad I have kept the gun as it also shoots like a house on fire.
I chose the handle Hedley Lammar when I joined the forum because I also thought it seemed pretty serious and hoped it would get a chuckle. I hope I didn’t ruin Blazing Saddles for too many people. A lot of us sign our first names behind our posts and also many of the ones who have been here for a few years know each other.
You may have started reading the forum at a more negative time than usual. Maybe it’s because it’s so close to April 15th! There’s a good group of people here for the most part and I do hope you stick around and comment on some of our discussions because I like to learn stuff and I’d like to hear your perspective.
Brad
Hokie
What the heck happened? You wrote more there than in the last three years combined!
Good read and it sounds like a neat 1895. Hope to see some more about it some day.
Brad
hedley lamarr said
Hokie
What the heck happened? You wrote more there than in the last three years combined!
Good read and it sounds like a neat 1895. Hope to see some more about it some day.
Brad
Hey Brad, Good Afternoon,,
I Enjoy Reading Your Contributions to the WACA Forum.
I had Written a Reply to a Post in the Rifles Section of the Forum on 30 March 2015,,
The Original Post (time frame, 9:18am 30 March 2015) was Dead, No Reply’s, so I Posted a Reply, with the same thoughts but different scenario and Model Rifle about how I Learned (my aspect from viewing Winchesters) to Validate a Winchester’s Authenticity, when NO Letter Could be Obtained or What I Perceived to be Right by the Winchesters I had Viewed, wasn’t Corralling with what was Written about that Model Winchester at that time frame.
At 8:48pm 30 March 2015, the Person of the Original Post, (Posted), my response wasn’t what he had intended their Post to be about. In the closing of my Response to their Post, I stated, I hope I did not derail their Thread with my Response. So, as the Author of my Post to this Thread, I have the Option of Deleting My Post, I did so because I was derailing their Post. I Wish I had the ability, to print out that Thread and what I had Posted, because I could not rewrite it word for word as it was Originally Posted. (I do have my moments).
Anyway, during that Threads Lifespan of, 11 hrs and 30 mins, it was Viewed 148 Times (from no views no reply’s, from start of thread), until I deleted my Post, to their Original Post and to this day and time there are only the 2 Posts from the Original Writer and they are their Own Posts. I know this sounds very confusing, the Thread is in the Rifle Section, Originality of Inscription on Winchester 1886 in Madis’ Winchester Book. (maybe you had read it before I had deleted my post).
Take it For What It’s Worth, You Are The ONE That Has to MAKE The Decision. In Purchasing That Winchester.
I would like to add, that Yes There are Very Informative Members here at the WACA, with a Wealth of Knowledge, BUT that Includes All Members, NOT Just a Select Few, My Opinions (yes) they are My Evaluations of Viewing Many Winchesters and they are NOT Gospel, Just Like the Opinions of any Proclaimed Expert, their Evaluations of Winchesters are NOT Gospel. Many Books Have Been Written about Winchesters, Research Them. View as Many Winchesters as You Can (by Model of your Interest).
Anyway Brad, I do read most of what goes on in this Forum (i might not say much), But, I Enjoy Collecting Winchesters, I am a History Buff (you can tell from reading my Posts). I had to Laugh about my Post being Longer, Than What I have Posted in my 3 year history. BUT My History about Winchesters has been Longer than 3 years.
Enjoy the Rest of Your Day,
hokie
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
Hokie
I don’t want to derail this thread but I can’t remember that post that lasted 11hrs. and 30 minutes. Good story. Surprised I missed it since I’ve been on here a lot lately.
There are a number of people who read the forum that know lots of stuff and have a lot of experiences. I’ve met some of them outside of this forum. They don’t comment a lot here either. I’m glad you comment when you do. I always like to read and take advantage of the chance to learn something new.
Brad
I agree that no matter what, we need to be having fun! We are just a bunch of boys with their toys and if you can’t enjoy it, then do something else please!
Rob Kassab
Director & Executive Editor
Winchester Arms Collectors Association
To greatly enhance your collecting experience, join WACA. It's only $35 / year (eMembership), and you'll be able to directly upload photos on the forum, receive the e-version of our quarterly magazine and have full online access to our magazine archive database, along with many other member benefits such as 15 additional record searches for Cody Firearms Museum members. It’s easy to join at http://winchestercollector.org/register/.
hedley lamarr said
Hokie
I don’t want to derail this thread but I can’t remember that post that lasted 11hrs. and 30 minutes. Good story. Surprised I missed it since I’ve been on here a lot lately.
There are a number of people who read the forum that know lots of stuff and have a lot of experiences. I’ve met some of them outside of this forum. They don’t comment a lot here either. I’m glad you comment when you do. I always like to read and take advantage of the chance to learn something new.
Brad
Well Brad, It’s 4:22 am, 12 March 2015, here in my Time Zone. (or is it the Twilight Zone)?
It’s been over 24 hrs since this Thread was Posted by LeRoy, It has 189 Views and Only 11 Posts in Response? I’ll say there are quite a few People that have nothing to contribute? Come on Guys, it’s in the Correct Sub Forum, GENERAL DISCUSSION. I don’t Think the Moderators are Going to Ban You From Posting Your Comments?
As for my Deleted Post in the Rifle Section (30 March 2015), of this Forum. I responded to the Original Post, with a way I devised of Proving that a Winchester Model 64, was Drilled and Tapped for a Receiver Sight, From the Factory.
It went something like this:
Back in the Day (way back, decades before Internet days), when I was going to Gun Shows. I was seeing Winchester Model 64 Rifles and Carbines, that were Drilled and Tapped for the Receiver Sight. But Winchester Model 94 Rifles and Carbines WERE NOT Drilled and Tapped for a Receiver Sight (both models were of the same time frame). At that time, Common Thought (Knowledge) was Winchesters were NOT Suppose to be Drilled and Tapped for a Receiver Sight until well after WW-2. I Said to Myself, this isn’t right, there is a misconception here. Every, Joe Gun Smith, can Can Not be Drilling these Model 64 Rifles and Carbines in the Same Place on the Receiver, as that is what I was Observing (just by Visually Inspection). So, I’m at the Allentown Gun Show, I come across a Pre War, Winchester Model 64 Deluxe Carbine with a Receiver Sight on it, I asked the Dealer if I could look at it, he said sure go ahead. I was Trembling with Excitement, because of the Condition of this Rare Winchester (only 300 made, according to the Bible) and it was within my Price Range, but I didn’t have that amount on me that day. I Gently Placed that Winchester Model 64 Deluxe Carbine with the Original Leather Sling back down on his table. I said to him, I’m Really Interested in your Model 64, but I don’t have the Money on me today, he replied, well I’m sure it will be on my Table for the Next Allentown Gun Show, because it’s Drilled and Tapped with a Receiver Sight, save up your money and it will be Yours.
It’s now, 5:25 am, time for a Smoke and Coffee Break, Be Right Back. (i’m doing good this morning Rick,only 1 cigarette so far)
Well, Time Goes By. The Next Allentown Gun Show is Months Away. I’m working my Butt Off Saving My Money, going to other Gun Shows, looking at all the Model 64’s and 94’s. I Find a Model 64 Rifle, Drilled and Tapped for a Receiver Sight and it’s Priced Dirt Cheap Because of this Known Fact. I Buy it, go home and Make a Template of the Left Side of the Receiver, out of Brass Shim Stock. Yes I Cut it Out to fit the Flat of the Receiver, Punched Out All the Screw Holes, That are on that Side of the Receiver, Including the Two for the Receiver Sight. Now I have a Gage to go by, that I can take to Gun Shows and Measure the Two Holes That are Drilled and Tapped for the Receiver Sight on Model 64 Winchesters, as to if they are all in the Same Position. Anyway Back to the Allentown Gun Show, it’s the First Day of the Show. I’m waiting in Line to Enter the Show, I’m Trembling with Fear, That the Model 64 Deluxe Winchester Carbine, Is Not going to be there. I get into the Show, Quickly work my way to the Dealers Table, Low and Behold, I’m Stricken With Fear, there is Someone Else, Looking at My Model 64 Deluxe Carbine. I’m standing there, listening to their Conversation About it Being Drilled and Tapped for a Receiver Sight. The Guy says to the Dealer, I’ll Give you this Much for it Because it’s Drilled and Tapped for a Receiver Sight. The Dealer Looks at me, He tells the Guy, No I won’t Take that Offer, Because I Promised the Kid standing Next to You, if it was Here Today, that I Would Sell it to Him for X Amount of Dollars. The Guy Says to the Dealer, I’ll Give you that Amount for it. The Dealer Looks at Me Again and Says, NO, it’s the Kids Gun. I Reached Across the Gun Table and Shook the Dealers Hand in Appreciation of Standing by His Word, All the While this Other Guy is Making Offers, for that Model 64 Deluxe Carbine. The Guy Moved on, I reached out my wallet, paid the Dealer, Shook His Hand Once Again and Thanked Him. He Said to Me, I am a Man of My Word, Enjoy Your New Winchester Model 64 Deluxe Carbine. We Parted Ways, I Exited the Gun Show, as I didn’t want to walk around the Show with my Newly Purchased Model 64 Carbine, with people asking me how much I paid for it. I get Home, lay a towel on the Kitchen Table and placed that Carbine down, and Carefully Removed the Receiver Sight, Laid My Template down on it and Holly Geeeezus, All The Holes Lined Up Just the way I Thought they Would (exact same spot), Now I Know My Theory is Somewhat Conclusive (plus I have been measuring others), as The Winchester Factory is Drilling and Tapping Model 64 Receivers for a Receiver Sight and I have One Of Three Hundred Made.
Well Brad, It’s 6:27 am 12 April 2015, the sun is Rising, Looks Like It’s Going to be a Nice Day. I’m Going to the Mt Bethel Gun Show, so I have Say, I Hope You and Those Others, That Might Have Read This Post, Enjoyed It.
hokie, Signing Off From The Twilight Zone.
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
Hokie
Great story. Heard some stories that went the other way for the guy in your shoes. Good to hear it worked out in the end.
Brad
Online
Mark,
I have to jump in and state… you are turning into a literary giant!! I had no idea that you had that much talent bottled up just waiting to get out
In regards to the Model 64 discovery, you and I must have came to the same conclusion at about the same time. However (unlike you), I went forward with it and wrote an article to help dispel the urban myth… hopefully it did not ruin your market for price depressed drilled & tapped Model 64 Rifles and Carbines.
So, you have one of the (300) the Bible says exists… my “bible” (research survey) has (89) Deluxe Carbines listed in it thus far, and with an extrapolated total of 4,370 that were manufactured. Of course, this is just BBBBBBert’s opinion.
| Model 64 Extrapolated Caliber and Variation Type Totals | |||||||
| Caliber | Totals | % | Variations | Totals | % | ||
| 30 W.C.F. | 39849 | 59.67% | Sporting Rifles | 38646 | 57.87% | ||
| 32 W.S. | 16575 | 24.82% | Deer Rifles | 16598 | 24.85% | ||
| 219 ZIPPER | 6039 | 9.04% | Total Rifles | 55243 | 82.72% | ||
| 25-35 W.C.F. | 3615 | 5.41% | Carbines | 7169 | 10.74% | ||
| 32-40 | 264 | 0.40% | Deluxe Carbines | 4370 | 6.54% | ||
| 38-55 | 441 | 0.66% | Total Carbines | 11540 | 17.28% | ||
| 66,783 | 100.00% | 66,783 | 100% | ||||
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hey Bert, Hello There,,
In Regards to me Turning into a Literary Giant. The Model 64 Article, took me 2 hrs to Write. The Model 1895 Article took me 3 hrs 50 mins to Write. If we were in Person, I could tell each Story in about 5 mins. I Really Believe (my opinion), this is the Reason Why Not to Many Members Write Articles about Their Experiences Collecting Winchesters.
#1- My Typing Skills aren’t that Good.
#2- I have to look at the keyboard to type,
#3- then you have the spelling errors (that you have to go back and correct).
#4- Most of ALL, I have to THINK About How to Word, What I am Trying to Convey, in an Intelligent Manner and Wording.
#5- Ever Know what Word you Want to Use, You Know the Definition of that Word (what it means), you Type it out and that little red line shows up and tells you, Your Word Isn’t in the Dictionary? Then You rearrange the Letters Until You Come Up With the Correct Spelling of that Word? (it’s like playing scrabble)
#6- Then You Have to Proof Read, Enter Missing Punctuation (there’s another one of those words). I Do Not Want to seem Like I am Just Rambling on, with No Rhyme or Reason.
#7- Then You Have the, Smoke and Coffee Break, to go out (I don’t smoke in the house) and Collect Your Thoughts of What You are Going to Say Next. By the Time You Come Back in, to Hopefully Finish Your Article. You Forgot What You were Going to Say.
#8- Is it FUN, Yes it is. Just Like this Paragraph (the 8 things), it’s posted for a laugh (humor), on me.
Anyway, In Regards to My Model 64 Article, I’ll Call it “My Devised Way” to Confirm Factory Drilled Holes for a Receiver Sight. The Time Frame Was, The Year 1975, I had Gotten Out of the Navy and Went Back to Collecting Winchesters. I Started Collecting Winchesters When I was 12 Years Old, with the Purchase of My Model 37 Winchester from My Dad for $15.00.
I have Contributed that Model 64 to your Survey Three Years ago Bert, along with Rest of my Model 64’s, with the Exception of I Think 2 Others. I will work on getting them out and sending the Information on to you. Plus I have a few for your Other Surveys, I’ll work on getting them out also.
Back to My Literary Skills, I am Intrigued by Winchesters With a Shorter Than Standard Length Barrel. I have read Numerous Articles about them, I’m sure Not Every Article, That Has Been Printed, But who Knows. I do Have My Own Thoughts (opinions) about them, But Really Who Wants to Hear Them. If you could gather all the Articles Printed about Those Winchesters, Combined everything that was Written, Together. I’m sure what I think would be included in those Articles put Together, maybe Not in One Paragraph, I would have to Read all the Articles and I would find what I think is written, I would just have to piece it together to form what I think. That’s the Best I can Translate My Thoughts, If You Can Follow That, You are Right Up There With Me. Do, You Really Want to Be There? Anyway, I don’t think I would live long enough to Write an Article about any Winchester.
Well, It’s 8:42 pm 12 March 2015, It’s Bed Time, It Only Took Me a Few Hours to Type This Expression of My Thoughts.
So, Until Later On, In The Twilight Zone, My Time Zone, whatever Zone I’m In.
Take Care,
hokie
PS, By the Way, The Clock on this site is All Messed Up, Definitely Not in My Time Zone.
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
Hokie,
To update your timezone, go into Profile / Overview.
Rob Kassab
Director & Executive Editor
Winchester Arms Collectors Association
To greatly enhance your collecting experience, join WACA. It's only $35 / year (eMembership), and you'll be able to directly upload photos on the forum, receive the e-version of our quarterly magazine and have full online access to our magazine archive database, along with many other member benefits such as 15 additional record searches for Cody Firearms Museum members. It’s easy to join at http://winchestercollector.org/register/.
Mark,
As always, I enjoy chatting with you either here or through email messages. I guess that I am fortunate, and have the skills to type with more than one finger at a time, and to put my thoughts into text rather quickly. It typically takes me about two days (a few hours each day) to write and type out an article, including all of the pictures. I just finished an article on the Model 65 and nearly finished an article on the Model 43.
I highly encourage you to keep writing and contributing to the WACA forum… you are not the only one who is having fun reading your prose.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert, Im curious why you haven’t included the Carbines in 30/30 or 32 Special in your “Bible”, yet you include Cal 32/40 & cal 38/55 in your research. In my 50 yrs of collecting & being a Full time Gun Dealer I have never encountered one 32/40 or 38/55 caliber in Rifle much less Carbine. Even if i hadn’t ever had one come through my shop, it would be safe to assume I surely would of stumbled upon one at a gun show or had a customer or fellow collector call me regarding one in these calibers 32/40 or 38/55. For years I looked for Model 64 Carbine in Cal 25/35 WCF for a customer. I was unsuccessful in finding one before the gentlemen passed away, yet you claim 3615 were manufactured according to your extrapolated figures posted. If those counts were considered accurate they would be found all over the place. I have since encountered a few of those in Cal 25/35 but they are very rare and hard to come by and can’t possibly make up 5% of total production numbers as you’ve posted. Going by your “Bible”? Extrapolated counts? That would indicate that 1 out every 20 Model 64s would be a carbine in 25/35 WCF? The 705 total count you list as carbines manufactured in cal. 32/40 and 38/55……. well lets just say I find it very questionable. I’m not afraid to admit I don’t understand extrapolated totals or how it results to the numbers you have posted maybe you could help me understand it by explaining how it works. from what i can tell you have actually surveyed only 89 of these guns manufactured as Carbines. Im confused Hokie shares a story happy to find that he has 1 of 300 manufactured then u with magazine article in hand as well as your survey claim 4320 were actually manufactured. According to your survey thats the same number you claim were made in Cal 25/35 38/55 and 32/40. Have u encountered any 30/30 and 32 specials Model 64 Carbines. I don’t understand where your numbers are coming from. Im not saying you are making miscalculations Im saying I don’t understand your miscalculations. You’ve made comments regarding Georges mistakes I think if we we listen closely we’d hear George laughing from all the way down in Texas.
Rare guns are hard to come by. For comparison reasons Of the One Of One Thousands there were approximately 200 manufactured. I know I’ve seen at least 50 of those & owned 12 to 15 of them over the years. Why is it that Ive ran across so many of these rare guns and not one in Model 64 in Cal.32/40 or 38/55.
Bert I don’t want to cause a problem or stir the turd here but you have discredited George Madis. & You are quick to criticize other peoples posts and opinions. You repeatedly insist your opinions are superior to anyone else’s input. George Madis was a Pioneer in the study of Winchester Firearms. 50 Years ago he wrote a great book that included a wealth of information referenced by all. Since then theres been studies and information available showing that Madis had made a few mistakes. It Was still a very good book and is still considered a standard reference book today. it was wrote 50 yrs ago with no help from modern technology or use of computers to gather the information needed. Regardless of your opinion it does not change the fact that the BATF observes and continues using the Madis Book as Reference.
The Polishing room records you reference to and state your opinion of, would eliminate a guestimate of around 100,000 Model 94s from being Classified as Antique Firearms. You are doing a tremendous discredit to the winchester collector by arguing and insisting these guns to be reclassified as modern firearms. An antique firearm will bring a third more in value than a modern firearm. Many collectors have invested in and stand to loose a lot of value in their collections which would serve no purpose whatsoever. Yes the ongoing research is important to help improve our knowledge. why you finds it necessary to change the status of the classification that we have gone by all these year makes no sense. It appears you believe yours to be the only correct theory on many topics of the forum. This forum isn’t just here to serve your needs in your survey it is here for all Winchester Collectors and Enthusists to enjoy.
In closing Bert I have no intention to slam u but u miss no opportunity to grandstand your opinion and research while slamming many posts on this forum with your criticism and arguments as an example a Hokie wrote regarding his new found 64 carbine. He was so excited to post about it. you could have used more diplomacy in your response instead knocking him down and ruining his day. Why is it you insist to take aLL THE FUN OUT OF IT.
There are many collectors here wanting to enjoy sharing stories like Hokies on this forum. Look through the forum postings do you see a lot of long time collectors, dealers or noted authorities responding to posts. You are representing WACA in this forum. you don’t have to post your negative opinions all the tim. Others had posted on this thread trying to add some humor and get things back to enjoying the forum. You couldn’t resist your temptation to say how much more you have contributed stating that Hokies count of 300 manufactured Model 64s was wrong but those you posted from your extroverted survey numbers were the correct numbers of which you’ve only actually surveyed 89 total. Hokie posted a great story that was was enjoyable to read and u were rude in your reply. Was it necessary for you to pat yourself on the back once again insisting yours to be the only factual information. Gee Hokie Bert even wrote an article for the magazine Bert lets mellow out and enjoy this forum and have some fun but i do think your mother would like you to apologize to Hokie. He seems to be a real nice guy and a positive influence in this forum as well as a true intellectual Giant. See you at Cody at the Board meeting Im looking forward to it. LeRoy Smile and have a great day. Meet you in the twilight zone. tomorrow you bring the cigarettes Ill bring the Brandy. Leroy
Hokie. Just wanted you to know that I too have limited skills with the computers and typing and have to type one letter at a time looking at the key board. And I won’t even tell you how long it took me to write the few posts I’m posting. I have enjoyed your stories shared and look forward to seeing what you decide to share for us in the twilight zone tommorow morning you are a very good writer and if you do write a book I’d be the first in line to buy one . Maybe we could find u a cute secretary with good typing skills to help with the typing and the big words lol. Anyway thank you for posting on this topic and thanks to everyone else to now let’s quit being all serious and mellow out so we can enjoy this forum. Thx. Leroy Merz
Hey Guys,
Thanks for Posting Your Thoughts about this Topic along with Mine. I Thought I was Going to be the Only Person Posting Responses. But that Did Not Bother me.
It Seems to Me that People, Read and Retain, ONLY what they want to Comprehend, it’s Like if I were Communicating these Stories in Person, through Voice Mode of Communicating. Some of the People in Attendance Would ONLY Hear What They Wanted to Comprehend. Are They Deaf, (NO) It’s Called Selective Hearing
For Instance, “When I say Back in The Day”, (as Posted in the Article), I Mean Back in the Day, No Computers, I WAS JUST a KID, Just got my Drivers License (I was still popping zits on my face, hopefully to get a Date one day), A Kid, Maybe 25 at the most (21 I really think) years Old, Dealing with a Dealer at the Allentown Gun Show that was Probably 60 years old at the time.
I Made My Template for the Model 64 Receiver, BACK in THE DAY, TIME FRAME of that taking place, About 1975 (I’ll give myself the benefit of the doubt) NO LATER THAN 1980.
Geeeezus Guys, It’s 5:20 am 13 March 2015, According to My Time Zone.
I Gotta Go Get Ready For Work, So From the Twilight Zone,,
Enjoy Your Day,,,,,hokie,,,, Membership # 4708,,,if that Helps.
PS…Could Someone Go Back in Time, to Change My Membership Since Date? Never Really Paid Much Attention to it until Brad said something in reference to me being here only 3 years
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
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